Interview with Leon Compton on ABC Radio Hobart
E&EO
LEON COMPTON:
Thank you for talking with us this morning. Jane Woodlaw lives with a disability herself and represents many others in Tasmania who do. She says: you simply don’t understand, yet, their perspectives on the reforms that you’re proposing in the Australian Parliament.
MINISTER ROBERT:
I met with Jane last week, as I’ve met with many participants, providers, advocates, and carers. And when it comes to independent assessments, Leon, it’s important we understand that this was recommended by the Productivity Commission in 2011. John Walsh is the father of the scheme who’s passionate about it; there’s been two trials and the final trial is now; there’s over a hundred tools are being assessed; there’s been 769 submissions; there’s 57 public consultations; 150 local information sessions; over 112 discussions with stakeholders – there’s a lot of work that’s gone into achieving and moving forward on the original vision for the NDIS.
LEON COMPTON:
And yet, Stuart Robert, what we’re doing being told is that people living with disabilities still don’t feel like you’ve heard their concerns about this issue. They’re the people that matter in this, aren’t they?
MINISTER ROBERT:
They are, and that’s why we’ve had thousands and thousands of people doing the trials; it’s why we’ve done hundreds of information sessions; it’s why we’ve been speaking about this for many years; it’s why we’ve been running our pilots for the last three years to get across as many people as possible. But there’s 432,000 participants in the scheme. So, we’ve been communicating to everyone; newsletters, brochures, using all of our digital channels to ensure that people are as informed as possible in terms of how we’re completing the scheme as it was originally designed.
LEON COMPTON:
Minister, can you name the people actually living with a disability that are telling you this new proposed scheme will be better for them?
MINISTER ROBERT:
If you look at the results out of the trial, it is in the high 70s – people saying they’re exceptionally satisfied with how the trials gone, with the results that’ve come out of it and the results out of the assessment. So, the actual quantitative data we’re seeing out of the second round of trials is showing that building up the scheme, as originally designed, is indeed a good step forward.
LEON COMPTON:
Are you saying you can achieve seven out of 10 people who are happy with this scheme? Leaving three out of 10 who are dissatisfied with the independent assessment process?
MINISTER ROBERT:
People will always have different perspectives on it. The scheme was built back on the 2011 Productivity Commission Report, that’s where it was put together. And of course, independent assessments was always designed to remove the disparity. So, think about Tasmania right now, Leon. If you live in the seat of Clark in Hobart, your average plan is $105,000. But, if you live in the seat of Franklin it’s $68,000. There’s a 53 per cent difference. Right now in Tasmania, your postcode determines your package and that’s not right.
LEON COMPTON:
But, Stuart Robert, many people will look at your government and its track record and suspect that you- that this for you is about bringing the postcode, 7000 Hobart, down to the amount of money spent on packages in Franklin? Not bringing Franklin up?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Well, that’s just not true. And independent assessment are designed to be independent of the participant, independent of government so they are fair and transparent – that’s the whole point of independent assessments. It’s the same way-
LEON COMPTON:
[Interrupts] Minister, will you be offering, will you be offering these independent assessors incentives for reducing the amount of money that they spend on packages with the NDIS?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Leon, now that, that is an outrageous question. I’m sorry.
LEON COMPTON:
Well, I’m happy to ask it again. Will you be offering incentives…
MINISTER ROBERT:
No. No. No. The answer, Leon, is no.
LEON COMPTON:
… to private providers to actually reduce the amount of money that they expend on the NDIS? The efficiency?
MINISTER ROBERT:
No. No. And I find that question offensive. You’ve just said to the Government, the Government will be looking at putting inducements to save money from people with disability – that is beneath the ABC, Leon.
LEON COMPTON:
Well, I’ll ask the question again-
MINISTER ROBERT:
I’ve said no to you. I’ve said no to you, Leon.
LEON COMPTON:
This is about finding a more efficient way to managing a multi-billion-dollar scheme. Are you not looking to find efficiencies in the way that you run this scheme, through offering independent assessments?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Leon, we are seeking to build the scheme out, as it was originally designed by the Productivity Commission; as the father of the scheme, John Walsh, originally designed it; as the June review in 2019 recommended we do it; and indeed, to reduce the disparity that we’re seeing. Because if you’re poor right now, you are getting not as good as outcome as if you’ve got greater means. People with disabilities spending $150 million a year of their own money to get therapy reports as part of their access. This is about taking all those costs away from people and having an independent, transparent process that is defensible for all people to enter the NDIS. This is not a cost cutting measure, Leon, at all. And there are no incentives to reduce people’s packages being provided to the independent assessors. Come on, Leon.
LEON COMPTON:
I mean, one of the issues that’s being raised by asking a person living with disability this morning, why are independent assessments exempt from any appeals process? There is a concern that if you’re independent assessment comes back, that that is what it will be, and it will be difficult for people who have been given that assessment to appeal it. Is that part of the new reforms you’re proposing?
MINISTER ROBERT:
The whole point of an independent assessment is that it’s completely independent of the participant, it’s independent of government – so it is being done by qualified health professionals. Any Australian can always, under Section 100 of the Act, request a review, and that’s the process that the Act has in place, and that’s been in place since the very start of the legislation.
LEON COMPTON:
On Mornings around Tasmania. So, Stuart Robert, these are regarded as significant reforms that you’re proposing and are introducing to Parliament. Can you explain to our audience then why it is? What your motivation is? From the perspective of services for people living with disability, what your motivation is for bringing them before the House?
MINISTER ROBERT:
It’s so that people living in Franklin have the same opportunity as the people living in Hobart. If you’re living in Launceston, your average plan values about $80,000; if you’re in Hobart it’s $105,000. And that disparity continues right across the country. In Brisbane, in Queensland, my states, it’s 90 or plus thousand dollars if you live in Brisbane; if you live in Ipswich -what’s that? Half an hour, 40 minutes, drive away it’s $68,000. There needs to be equity of access for all Australians with disabilities. And your postcode should not determine your plan, and right now, it does.
LEON COMPTON:
You were in Tasmania only last week, so you sort of get it, you have a pretty good understanding of the lay of the land. Are the recent packages the cheaper the further you go from Hobart? Or Launceston? Because there are just fewer services that you might be able to access or buy there? And is that not a function of the reality of regional life? What’s your assessment of that?
MINISTER ROBERT:
No. Because the package is determined based on what your functional requirements are, not on whether the specialists are available to provide those services. So the challenge here is that there’s a clear correlation of the lower socio-economic areas, or the poorer areas, are getting less higher packages because, frankly, they can’t afford all the therapy reports that others can. That’s the brutal reality and that’s what we’re trying to solve here, to give equity across the country so that packages in Hobart are exactly the same as those in Braddon. And it’s not about bringing packages down, it’s about bringing people to the same equitable access.
LEON COMPTON:
How will you be able to test that empirically over time? Will we see more money moving into packages per capita in Australia? What will be the audit process by which we’ll understand your delivery of that as a promise, Minister?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Same way we can see it right now. Same way I can see that in the seat of Lyons, it’s a $70,200 average package; the seat of Franklin it’s 68,900; Braddon it’s 81,300; the seat of Bass 80,000. You can measure all of the data right now, and as those independent assessments come in, and as we seek to solve the issue of equity and access, we’ll be able to measure it the same way we measure it now.
LEON COMPTON:
Stuart Robert’s our guest this morning, Federal Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Stuart Robert, Jacqui Lambie, Senator for Tasmania, is pretty Braddon by any measure. She’s looked at this issue and voted against it. How do you explain the fact that you weren’t able to convince the Senator of the merits of this proposal?
MINISTER ROBERT:
I think I’ll let senators speak for themselves – that’s the great thing about a robust democracy.
LEON COMPTON:
But she’s a cross bencher, with respect. I mean, you’ve got to get her vote to get this through. You tried and you couldn’t. How do you explain the fact that you couldn’t win the argument?
MINISTER ROBERT:
They had- What you’re referring to is a motion in the Senate. The legislation will be up for review in the coming weeks, and then we’ll start a very solid consultation process with all of the crossbench and all of the senators once the legislation is out. And that’s where we’re going to go. And we’d encourage all senators to get themselves across the issue, because it’s really important, and especially for Tasmania. Senator Lambie, of course, I’m sure wants to see equity of access. She doesn’t want to see $68,000 to people in Franklin versus $105,000 in Clark. She wants to see the equity right across Tasmania, and we look forward to engage with all our senators once the legislation’s out for review.
LEON COMPTON:
Minister, I know you got to go in a moment. Final question. A listener, again living with disability, finding a suitably qualified assessor is a very real worry. They’re hard to get hold of at the moment. Will your proposed changes to make it easier, Minister?
MINISTER ROBERT:
Are you talking about assessors for independent assessments?
LEON COMPTON:
I believe so, yeah. I’m trying to pass the text that’s come in, but I believe so. Finding a suitably qualified assessor is difficult at the moment.
MINISTER ROBERT:
Your listeners might be speaking about finding allied health professionals. For example, one of the challenges with occupational therapists, if I use that as an example, the University of Tasmania hasn’t historically been training occupational therapists – so Tasmania has a very thin market in that. And that’s where we need to continue to work with universities and educational institutions. Because we know, if Tasmanians are trade- are trained in specific specialty, they tend to stay in their state. Same with regional and rural, if you train, train those students to be allied health professionals or doctors they tend to go back to regional areas. So that remains the challenge, that thin market. But in terms of independent assessors, there are eight organisations that we’re working with to ensure full coverage.
LEON COMPTON:
Appreciate you talking with us this morning, Minister. Thank you.
[ENDS]