3AW Neil Mitchell
E&OE
NEIL MITCHELL:
Social Services Minister Scott Morrison who is with me in the studio. Mr Morrison, Good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
96 900 693, 13 13 32. We will get to childcare issues in a moment and getting women back to work. Just could I ask you first, this carry on in the Parliament yesterday with Tony Abbott and the Goebbels line referring to Bill Shorten as being sort of Goebbels like. Wasn’t – what was – that frustrated me. That was just a silly argument. What was your view?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the Prime Minister immediately withdrew and I think he appreciated the need to do that. What was blindingly hypocritical was they confected outrage we saw from members of the Opposition who have used exactly the same phrase against the Prime Minister when he was leader of the Opposition and I have the seen the union front pages of their various periodicals photo shopping in those sorts of Nazi-like uniforms as well. So, look I think you have got to be sensitive about your language that you use. The Prime Minister I think recognised that immediately, absolutely immediately.
MITCHELL:
So he is unwise to use the term?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I think the fact that he withdrew it so quickly reflected his own view on that and that is what you do in those circumstances. But what was really galling was frankly the reaction from Labor members who have in fact used exactly the same terms themselves in the past against members of the Opposition. So frankly I thought they were not showing any sense of balance in how they were behaving at all.
MITCHELL:
Would you use that phrase yourself?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am not aware of ever using a phrase like that in the past.
MITCHELL:
Would you? Is it wrong?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is not a phrase I believe I’ve used or choose to use, but that’s in the heat of debate on occasions and members of Parliament on both sides on occasions will use words they regret and that’s why they withdraw them.
MITCHELL:
Ok. Now you are putting together the package of reforms on the Childcare sector now. That will be finished before the budget?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes it will and we are now in a new sort of final phase of consultation with people in the sector. Today I will be meeting with families out – down towards Geelong and talking to them. I have been talking to operators now pretty much since coming into the job. This is a very big part of what the government is doing this year and it is all designed to do one primary thing and that is to help families stay in work and get back to work. Because we have got around two thirds of double parent families now are two income families. Now a generation ago that would not have been true and where people want to choose to stay home and look after the kids, good for them, that is a choice that all families make but it is increasingly tougher to do that these days and for many families particularly under about $150,000-180,000 a year particularly in a city like this you have got to be two incomes to give your kids and the family the chances you want to give them.
MITCHELL:
Ok, well let’s test the ideas factory. If you are at home but would like to go to work, what would help, what would do it, what would make it work? 96 900 693, 13 13 32. Or if you are in the workforce but you have got kids. What are the issues, what are the problems, what makes it more difficult, what help do you need and do you think the government should provide? 96 900 693, 13 13 32. Is there likely to be a subsidy for nannies?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that’s what was recommended by the Productivity Commission and what we have to be careful with here is that we don’t see all those people working in childcare centres go and drift off into the nanny workforce, that would only put up the cost of childcare. So I think there are very genuine areas where we consider that; people who are on shift work for example have very irregular work hours. You’ve got people in remote and rural areas; you have got kids with special needs. So I think there are some targeted areas where this can – an argument can be made for a subsidy but we are not going to get into the subsidy for ironing and housekeeping and things like that. That’s not on.
MITCHELL:
How do you control it though, once you subsidise the nanny you can’t control what they are doing.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well this is why you would be progressing very cautiously. It would have to be regulated, there would have to be standards, there would have to be registered businesses that were involved with people with ABN’s and contracts and employment and all of that. So I think we will proceed cautiously on that front. We are spending $7 billion a year on childcare subsidies now and the government is already picking up two-thirds of the bill for childcare in this country. Parents pay one third and they are still having issues with affordability.
MITCHELL:
So it is not working?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I don’t think it is working the way it needs to, no, and that is why we are doing this. This is why we are seeking to recalibrate it and where we need to focus most of the attention on is on those middle to lower income families where we think we can better help them get into the workforce if we can get the childcare arrangements right.
MITCHELL:
I got a strong reaction from people who have already brought up their children saying nobody helped me. Why should I as a taxpayer now be funding childcare for somebody else?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have heard the same argument and a lot of things have changed from a generation ago and the supports that weren’t there for people a generation ago. Going back to the 50s and 60s there wasn’t universal English language training for migrants either. That would have been a good idea back then as well.
MITCHELL:
So we have got to accept that subsidised childcare is essential do we?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The other thing that has changed is what I said before; we now have more families who are needing to work having two incomes. Now that wasn’t always the case. It was the case when I was growing up. My mum worked after we’d grown up and were at school, she went back to work, she retrained herself and she went and did that and she made a lot of sacrifices for our family. My dad was a policeman so we weren’t a wealthy family and we needed to have two incomes. So as a result I think there are many other families in that situation today and I want to make it more attainable for them. The choice to stay at home should be a choice to stay at home. It shouldn’t be forced on someone because they just can’t get the childcare and we are going to trap a family in welfare.
MITCHELL:
What about a means test though? Are you looking at a means test on subsidies?
MINISTER MORRISON:
There already is a means test.
MITCHELL:
A tougher one?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The means test currently means that the minimum rebate you get is 50 per cent and that extends out and the Productivity Commission.
MITCHELL:
So you can be earning a lot of money and get a 50 per cent rebate?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The percentage of families that are in that situation though are quite small and the overall cost of the scheme. You have got over 89 per cent of families earning over $180,000 or less. But they are issues that have been taken up by the Productivity Commission. We made a commitment not to cut out a level of subsidy on income before the election and we will be honouring that. There is already a means test the level of subsidy does decline with income.
MITCHELL:
Hello Leah, go ahead.
CALLER:
Hi Neil, I am probably the other end of the spectrum. I actually work full time and have two very young children and I am at a senior level in my role and I can’t get any part time work so I am exhausted and trying to juggle two kids, the full-time job and everything else. I’d like to know whether or not there is a plan to work with businesses or big business to try and help job share situations?
MITCHELL:
So you would rather work part time?
CALLER:
Absolutely, I am exhausted. I want to spend more time with my kids, I want to be able to read with my children at night and not have to you know be exhausted doing it. But no one wants to employ senior level staff at part-time because I am in a senior role.
MINISTER MORRISON:
That is a really interesting point because it highlights it is not just about childcare it is also about the flexibility of the modern workplace and the engagement with employers and I think they are very valid issues. They are not something I can change through the childcare system but that is a very valid debate when we talk about how we increase female participation in the labour force and how it is not just whether you are in a full time job but what sort of job you can be in. It is also important for small business. I have businesses in my own electorate who are actually accessing people who were a full-time at a senior level but wanted to make the sort of changes that you have talked about and small businesses I have found are quite open to that idea.
[Ad break]
MITCHELL:
Minister Morrison the budget process is underway the razor gang is meeting. Will the razer gang take to social welfare?
MINISTER MORRSION:
We already have a number of measures there from the last budget and what we’re trying to do is deal with some challenges in social welfare. I think I talked last time I was on the program we are trying to get young people into work. We are trying to get families back into work and we trying to encourage older Australians as they age to work longer because it’s in their interest to do so and to better access the capital they have available to them. So these are the things the budget will be trying to address. It’s about actually dealing with those challenges.
MITCHELL:
So do you expect to be – see your money cut or not?
MINISTER MORRSION:
No I don’t. What I expect to see is to continue to have responsible measures that control the growth and spending in this area. I mean it is a $150 billion a year currently. Eight out of ten income tax payers go to work every single day just to pay that bill and so I want to make sure that money is better spent.
MITCHELL:
Ok. Pensions are going up today, $5.90 a fortnight, for singles, $8.80 for couples. Under your new system which rather than linking to wages links to indexation. What – how much less would people be getting?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Well if we’ve been growing at only at Total Male Average Weekly Earnings pensioners today would be over $20 a fortnight worse off since the last election. What we have done since the last election is we have continued what would have been largely CPI increase. The pension has gone up by over six per cent including today’s increase. We also got rid of the carbon tax and kept the carbon tax compensation. Now that is over $14 for a single pensioner a fortnight and over $21 for a couple pensioner. So they have got the increases on the CPI substantively and the carbon tax compensation which means they are six per cent better off today than they were before the election and they are certainly better off today than they would have been under Labor today.
MITCHELL:
But if you have a look at this specifically, so they are going up – single $5- no, couples $8.80 a fortnight for couples. What would that figure be under the new system?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Exactly the same, because that was a CPI increase and the last one was a CPI increase as well. So what we have seen is that pensions have gone up faster than wages under this government to date. Now we are still talking about the other measures Neil, and those measures where put up in the last budget. I am in conversation with the crossbenchers if there are to be changes there they wouldn’t be taking effect until after the next election. So there is plenty of time to work through this. I have had a lot of concerns raised with me about it. I have floated in those discussions and it was raised with me an adequacy review. Now whether that’s the ultimate solution to this. We’ll see.
MITCHELL:
What is an adequacy review?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Every three years on top of the CPI increases that you get every six months there would be a back to basics review of is the pension adequate to support people in the community. Now assessing adequate –
MITCHELL:
But it’s not now probably.
MINISTER MORRSION:
The Labor party did an adequacy review a few years ago and that was when there was a change to pensions and we have had the indexation since then. Now what I am saying is it is important to make sure the pension is adequate. No one is suggesting that it is a lavish payment but people have worked hard over their lives and those who have to rely on the pension then we need to make sure it is at an adequate level.
MITCHELL:
If couples are on a full pension, how much is it?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Currently it is over $1200 a fortnight for couples.
MITCHELL:
Ok. Is that enough to live on?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Well that’s, $1,296.80 and based on the most recent reviews that were done and the indexation that applies that is the trajectory that said it would be adequate. Now what I am saying is every three years we could be just doing a check again against that, against a whole range of the cost of living measures and make sure it is up to scratch. At present not everybody has got on board with that idea. That’s ok. That’s what the nature of a negotiation discussion is.
MITCHELL:
So is that – that’s not a policy it’s just a discussion point?
MINISTER MORRSION:
Yes, it’s trying to work our way through the issue.
MITCHELL:
But you obviously favour that. You would like a review every three years.
MINISTER MORRSION:
What I would like is for the pension to be adequate, and in just talking with stakeholders in the sector these are ideas that have been floated with me that I think are worth discussing, and what I am trying to get to, Neil, is where we have a pension that is sustainable in terms of its cost. It’s costing today over $40 billion a year, that is going to rise to almost $70 billion in the next ten years. Other issues that are then raised in this discussion is well is everyone who is on the pension, should they be on the pension. Now that’s issues that have been raised with me by those in the sector, by pensioners themselves. So that is why we are having I think a pretty good look with people about how better can we encourage people to use the capital they have to support their cost of living and to support their way of life as they want to lead it in their retirement years.
MITCHELL:
You say not everybody on the pension should be on the pension. How broad is the rorting on the pension?
MINISTER MORRSION:
With every pension payment, with every Newstart Allowance, DSP, all of these sort of things, you are always going to have people who will take a loan of the system and that’s why we’re also having a look at upgrading our integrity measures and compliance through the Department of Human Services and Marise Payne and I are working on some changes there. You’re always going to get some rorting but then there’s just the general question of eligibility, now this is what the debate has to be about. I think the one option you can’t go with is do nothing and that’s what Labor’s suggesting, do absolutely nothing, and what that means is that you drive the pension off a cliff within the next ten years and a Minister for Social Services in the future and a Treasurer is going to have to put in place a short, sharp shock to deal with the problem. I want to avoid that. I think that would be a dreadful outcome.
MITCHELL:
What’s a short, sharp shock? What do you mean?
MINISTER MORRISON:
A cut in the pension in real terms down the track. Now that could happen in the next ten years if we don’t address the sustainability of the pension now and what Labor is doing is they’re just going to drive with the blindfold on, on the pension, into the future and that will mean they’ll end up crashing into a brick wall on the pension. Now that’s only going to hurt pensioners. I think we can make incremental, modest, slight changes now about how the overall pension is managed which means we can transition to a sustainable pension so it’s there for all generations. I want to keep it for the current generation, they’ve worked hard, but there is a generation following that will also need to rely on the pension.
MITCHELL:
So you’re saying if you don’t get your changes through, there will have to be a pension cut?
MINISTER MORRISON:
A future government would have to look at a very serious measure down the track if we can’t do something incremental now, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
MITCHELL:
Can I ask you about this report that half of the Radio Rentals revenue comes through Centrelink, the Centrepay system, what’s that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Look I’ll have to come back to you on that one Neil.
MITCHELL:
Do you know what Centrepay system is?
MINISTER MORRISON:
This is something that’s run through the Department of Human Services and I’m sure Marise, if she could come on, and I’m sure you’d have her on, she can run through this. What we want to ensure in Centrelink, it’s a very big operation we’ve got 30,000 people employed in that area, I think last time I was on we were talking about improving the ICT system so it meant that-
MITCHELL:
Have you got a new computer yet?
MINISTER MORRISON:
You can expect an announcement in that area fairly soon.
MITCHELL:
How many billion?
MINISTER MORRISON:
When the announcement’s out you’ll know exactly what it is.
MITCHELL:
But I’ve been talking to Joe Hockey about this last year and he said it would be in the billions.
MINISTER MORRISON:
You’re in that space. We’re definitely in that space and if we don’t spend on improving that system, remember this is a system that was running around when Peter Brock was winning at Bathurst, that’s when it was developed and Bob Hawke was the Prime Minister, so that needs to be fixed.
MITCHELL:
We’ve been talking a lot here about self-defence because of this horrendous murder we’ve had here in Victoria in the last few days. Now there’s a man charged so we don’t talk about that but you’re a father of girls, how do you feel about making us safer on the streets? How old are your children?
MINISTER MORRISON:
My kids are five and seven.
MITCHELL:
A long way off yet–
MINISTER MORRISON:
They are, but every parent it’s their worst nightmare, I can’t think of anything worse. I honestly can’t.
MITCHELL:
What do you think about women carrying defensive spray in their handbags, it’s illegal in Victoria and I think New South Wales.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yeah and look they’re issues for State ministers to deal with and I don’t unnecessarily want to get involved in that discussion, that’s something that State governments have to properly consider, but I think it’s up to all families, all parents, all individuals to make the best decisions for their own safety as they can through the law, but when you see these stories happen not just once but on more than one occasion it’s a very sad indictment on the darkest corners of our society. But on that front though, there are other dark areas of society and domestic violence and things like that, we’ve got $100 million going into the second plan of action and we’ve got some more things we’re planning to do there which we’ll be talking about very, very shortly but on top of that yesterday we introduced legislation into the Parliament to deal with forced marriages and further criminalising that behaviour, and particularly those who are involved with it and ensuring that they face the full frontal of the law.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for coming in Scott Morrison, Social Services Minister. Just put your headphones on for one minute, there’s one last thing I’d like your advice on this. This is Christopher Pyne, “I’ve fixed it. I’m a fixer”. What’s he fixed?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well Christopher has been very effective right across the board–
MITCHELL:
What’s he fixed? He was changing a tyre on television this morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well Chris is one of the big fixers in the Parliament and what he’s trying to fix is Labor’s problem and that is that they are not interested in deregulating our higher education system and I think this is a big challenge for the future. I think Christopher is a fixer. He’s been a fixer over a long time and he’ll continue to fix up Labor’s mess in the portfolio.
[Audio of Minister Pyne] “I fixed it. I’m a fixer”.
MITCHELL:
Are you a fixer too?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I’m a fixer. We’re all fixers in this government because we’re all fixing Labor’s abominable mess. You’ve got to get your tool belt out and we’ve had it on since the day we were elected Neil and we are fixing Labor’s mess.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for coming in.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks, Neil.
MITCHELL:
Scott Morrison, the Social Services Minister.