Interview with Neil Mitchell, 3AW Mornings
E & OE – Proof only
Subject: Peter Slipper; Tony Abbott’s attacks on the Prime Minister; Labor delivering for Australian people.
NEIL MITCHELL: The Minister for Community Services, Jenny Macklin, good morning.
JENNY MACKLIN: ; Good morning.
NEIL MITCHELL: Are you concerned about the health of Peter Slipper?
JENNY MACKLIN: I think it is important, I’m glad you have raised that, that we understand that no matter what somebody might be accused of, there is a human being and I think you saw that on display last night. It’s not only about him either, he has a family, and I do think that we need to think of all of them.
NEIL MITCHELL: Have you spoken to him, because I’m told a couple of people…
JENNY MACKLIN: …I haven’t, no.
NEIL MITCHELL: Is it correct that the Independents convinced him to step down?
JENNY MACKLIN: I have heard that on the radio, just as you obviously have, so all I know is that we were notified around 7 o’clock last night that Mr Slipper was going to come into the Parliament and announce his resignation.
NEIL MITCHELL: But was it the decent thing for him to do?
JENNY MACKLIN: I think it was, I think he acknowledged it was. He said that in his remarks, he apologised for what I think everybody universally says, that these text messages were completely inappropriate, but he also made plain that he was making this decision to resign in the interests of the Parliament. And no matter all the other things that are going on in the court case about Mr Slipper, I think many people would acknowledge his commitment to the Parliament.
NEIL MITCHELL: Okay, so he’s done the decent thing by the Parliament, while the Prime Minister did not, when she had the option to, in fact, vote to remove him from the job. How does that add up?
JENNY MACKLIN: I think you have to look at what was really going on yesterday, and of course, what has gone on for the last two years. Mr Abbott moves these motions on a regular basis and his whole objective, of course, is to just wreck the Parliament and have a huge brawl…
NEIL MITCHELL: …But this isn’t about Tony Abbott, this is about whether it was proper for Peter Slipper to remain as Speaker. He decided it wasn’t, he did the decent thing, the Prime Minister did not.
JENNY MACKLIN: That’s the point I’m trying to make to you, that in fact, what was going on in the Parliament was not Tony Abbott’s view about Mr Slipper. He was using that in his latest tirade of abuse against the Prime Minister to bring the Government down. Now, it’s fair enough for the Opposition to be feisty in their debates with the Government, but for the Leader of the Opposition to continually use the Parliament…
NEIL MITCHELL: Look Ms Macklin, have a shot at Tony Abbott by all means, but the fact is, Tony Abbott and the Opposition were putting forward a motion that would have removed the Speaker, which you now agree was the decent thing to do. But the Government didn’t support it. Now, if you don’t stand up for decency for women, what do you stand for?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well I think we do stand for that…
NEIL MITCHELL: …Oh, come on, after what he said in those text messages…
JENNY MACKLIN: …And the Prime Minister made it very clear and many other people have made it very clear…
NEIL MITCHELL: …So why does she support him?
JENNY MACKLIN: Let me just go again. I just don’t agree with your analysis. What we have seen from this Leader of the Opposition…
NEIL MITCHELL: Oh, but Ms Macklin, it is not about , you can’t say Peter Slipper should stay because Tony Abbott’s a grub, now that’s just a Grade 3 clear thinker would reject that.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well, nobody is saying that Mr Slipper should have stayed, we have all accepted his resignation…
NEIL MITCHELL: …So why didn’t you vote to get rid of him when you had the opportunity?
JENNY MACKLIN: Because it was a political action by the Leader of the Opposition in his normal way…
NEIL MITCHELL: …It was a motion that stood for the decency for Parliament, regardless of the motivation, and you’ve agreed the decent thing was Slipper go, but you wouldn’t support that in the Parliament.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well I don’t think you can say, regardless of the motivation, we all know what the motivation of Tony Abbott is, and that is to try and destroy the Government.
NEIL MITCHELL: Of course, he’s Opposition Leader…
JENNY MACKLIN: Exactly
NEIL MITCHELL: …So what was the motivation of your people when they stood and defended Peter Slipper despite the vile nature of what he had said? What was your motivation if it wasn’t clinging to power?
JENNY MACKLIN: People did not, in fact, defend his language, people did not defend it at all. In fact, every single person who spoke made it clear that his comments were completely inappropriate.
NEIL MITCHELL: So why, did you not, when now you say it’s the decent thing that he went, why wasn’t it the decent thing that he go yesterday when it was put to your vote?
JENNY MACKLIN: Because, as I have just said to you, it was a political ploy by the Leader of the Opposition. It was not an attempt …
NEIL MITCHELL: …Minister…
JENNY MACKLIN: …No, well you asked my opinion, you’ve asked me three times…
NEIL MITCHELL: …Well I just can’t believe the answer, frankly. It just doesn’t make sense. Because you didn’t like Tony Abbott’s motivation, you voted against something you believed in.
JENNY MACKLIN: As many people have said, and I think you have heard this comment from the Independents today, they don’t want the Parliament used as a Kangaroo Court, as a place where people are found to be guilty or not guilty…
NEIL MITCHELL: …But this wasn’t judging his guilt or innocence in the case, and you know that, it’s got nothing to do with the cases…
JENNY MACKLIN: …Well that is not the view of, certainly some of the Independents, and…
NEIL MITCHELL: …So they are running the Government, are they?
JENNY MACKLIN: No, you don’t accept my argument, so I’m trying to present to you other people’s arguments, who are not either the Government or the Opposition side. They too, don’t want the Parliament used as a Kangaroo Court. We’ve been through this in other debates, and it is very important that people have their day in court, that that’s where people’s guilt or otherwise is determined. What happened yesterday was not a debate about Mr Slipper or the appropriateness of his remarks. In fact it did become a debate between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, certainly from our point of view about the appalling language used by the Leader of the Opposition, continuously, against the Prime Minister.
NEIL MITCHELL: And the appalling language was what?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well yesterday, the language that was used by the Leader of the Opposition was that the Government should ‘die of shame’, and of course, this is exactly the same form of expression that Alan Jones used against the Prime Minister about her father.
NEIL MITCHELL: Well that was a silly thing Tony Abbott said, I agree, but it’s not the same as relating it directly to the Prime Minister. It was the Prime Minister who then raised her father, which I thought was indecent in itself.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well the Prime Minister has been subjected to…
NEIL MITCHELL: …Oh of course, it has been ugly, I agree…
JENNY MACKLIN: …It has been ugly…
NEIL MITCHELL: …I agree with that entirely, but Tony Abbott wasn’t referring to the Prime Minister’s father, he was referring to the Government in fairness, wasn’t he? A bit different.
JENNY MACKLIN: And used exactly the same form of expression, and you would expect that to be something that the Prime Minister would feel very offended by, and she was.
NEIL MITCHELL: Was she really offended by being called a ‘witch’?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well I think that in fact what has happened over the last two years, is that she’s put up with it…
NEIL MITCHELL: …Yeah, fair enough…
JENNY MACKLIN: …And that she has taken a lot of those criticisms on the chin. And yesterday, I think partly because of the just appalling language by Alan Jones, and then in a different way, repeated by Tony Abbott, the Prime Minister decided to speak out and speak up for herself. So
Tony Abbott was out there at the front of Parliament, underneath the signs about ‘Ditch the Witch’ and other expressions which I don’t really want to use on the radio…
NEIL MITCHELL: …No, but none of them are in the same class as what Peter Slipper said, and yet, you were quite happy for him to stay as Speaker. That is the hypocrisy and the inconsistency, Minister…
JENNY MACKLIN: …Well I don’t agree with that…
NEIL MITCHELL: …You’re appalled by Tony Abbott standing in front of a sign that says ‘witch’, but you can put up, and you will defend the position of a Speaker that says the most vile things, far worse than ‘witch’.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well that’s not true, I actually think the expressions that are in those text messages are disgusting. I’m happy…
NEIL MITCHELL: …I agree, but you defending…
JENNY MACKLIN : Nobody’s defending…
NEIL MITCHELL: …You’re happy for him to stay as Speaker.
JENNY MACKLIN : Nobody is defending him, he has resigned, it is the right thing to do.
NEIL MITCHELL: Now you defended him yesterday.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well nobody did defend him, actually.
NEIL MITCHELL: Oh, well you defended his position. You defended keeping him in his position, which is really the same thing.
JENNY MACKLIN: Well, we are just going around in circles.
NEIL MITCHELL: Yeah, we are. We are. What about, can you understand that the people are just deeply frustrated by this sort of carry-on, they look at what happened in the Parliament yesterday, and they say to hell with all of you – bring in a big hose, hose the place out and start all over again.
JENNY MACKLIN: I can understand that, but the interesting thing is that we are, in fact, getting on with so many good things. As you might know, just last week we announced applications for Parental Leave for Dads, these are the things that are actually…
NEIL MITCHELL: …Well what about laying off this personal politics on Tony Abbott? You want him to lay off you, why don’t you lay off Tony Abbott?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well, I’m more than happy to come on your program and just talk about policy every single day.
NEIL MITCHELL: Yeah but will the Government lay off these personal, when do you lay off calling Tony Abbott names?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well I’m not calling Tony Abbott names…
NEIL MITCHELL: …The Prime Minister was – he’s a misogynist.
JENNY MACKLIN: You have no idea the level of abuse that she has been subject to…
NEIL MITCHELL: …From Tony Abbott?
JENNY MACKLIN: …Over the last two years, not just Tony Abbott, Tony Abbott and many others.
NEIL MITCHELL: But she is Prime Minister…
JENNY MINISTER: …She is Prime Minister, and no Prime Minister …
NEIL MITCHELL: …Go on Twitter and see what any of us get…
JENNY MACKLIN: …Well that’s true, but that doesn’t justify it…
NEIL MITCHELL: …No that’s true it doesn’t, would you lay off the name calling?
JENNY MACKLIN: Of course, I will…
NEIL MITCHELL: …But what about the Prime Minister, will she continue to do this?
JENNY MACKLIN: The Prime Minister has not defended to calling anybody names
NEIL MITCHELL: A misogynist? A misogynist?
JENNY MACKLIN: I think yesterday’s behaviour and the behaviour of the last two years demonstrates that that’s exactly what Tony Abbott believes in. Tony Abbott has an enormous history in this area, and of course it’s all been laid out. It was laid out extensively by the Prime Minister yesterday. But I can assure you, and your listeners, we want to get on with the job of governing, that’s why we’re in government.
NEIL MITCHELL: Do you really believe, personally, that Tony Abbott is a misogynist?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that’s the case.
NEIL MITCHELL: What do you believe, you’ve known him a long time, what do you think?
JENNY MACKLIN: And I’ve seen his appalling behaviour on many, many, different…
NEIL MITCHELL: …No, that’s not answering it. Do you believe Tony Abbott is a misogynist?
JENNY MACKLIN: ; Well, I do, because of the way in which I’ve seen him behave. Now, I’m not going to get into name-calling as we’ve just agreed, that is not a good thing to do. But you asked me a direct question, yes I do think he is a misogynist.
NEIL MITCHELL: So he has a hatred or dislike of women or girls?
JENNY MACKLIN: Well, all of the way that he behaves shows that that’s true, Neil.
NEIL MITCHELL: A hatred or dislike of women or girls. You really think that?
JENNY MACKLIN: You look at the way he behaves, the way he has taken the level of abuse against our first female Prime Minister up to her every single day of the week. Now, of course it’s a robust Parliament, of course we have big debates and arguments, that’s to be expected. But the level of abuse that our Prime Minister has been subjected to is way beyond that which is reasonable, and you have to call into question the motivation of the Leader of the Opposition.
NEIL MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time, the Minister for Community Services, Jenny Macklin.