2GB Money News with Ross Greenwood
E&OE
Subjects: Resignation of Solicitor General; Paid Parental Leave
ROSS GREENWOOD:
If my memory serves me correctly, you’re not only a former state treasurer but you’re also a former state attorney-general, is that correct?
MINISTER PORTER:
That’s correct. So you’re about to pin me on the Gleeson thing are you?
ROSS GREENWOOD:
Of course I am. You understand how this works – was this deliberate provocation of the Solicitor General to basically squeeze him out of office?
MINISTER PORTER:
There are two comments I’d make is that problem that arises, particularly in modern governments that have gotten busier and busier, where ministers and their departments might be going to the Solicitor General without notifying or without the Attorney General having some kind of centralised knowledge of that. It is a very real problem, a problem that’s being grappled at, at a state level by most state AG’s. What our commonwealth Attorney General, in George Brandis, did by asking for some form of centralisation of information flow was not at all unreasonable in any reasonable observations. So to the extent that that was sort of used as some sort of provocation, I must say I find that hard to stomach.
But on the trust issue, having been a former Attorney General myself, I was more than a bit surprised to hear it revealed during senate estimates that the commonwealth Solicitor General had contact with the Shadow Attorney General during caretaker and not let George Brandis, the Attorney General know. I mean, I found that really quite surprising.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
Did that make his position untenable do you believe?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well I haven’t read the full detail of his letter, but it talks, as I understand through the media reporting of it, of trust. But that is, of course, a two way street.
And, I think that that was a very, very surprising thing to have revealed at senate estimates.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
I want to get on to the other important aspect that I did want to talk to you about, and that is paid parental leave. There’s no doubt, by saying to families – to women – that you do not want them to ‘double-dip’, in other words to be able to have the government’s paid parental leave scheme and then on top of that to be able to have an employer’s paid parental leave scheme. Because new mothers have access to 18 weeks paid leave at the minimum wage, plus any additional entitlements paid for by their employer – you know that you’ve created the storm by this?
Talkback radio today has been full of mothers out there saying that this is not fair, that they should be entitled to both. Why can you argue to them that they should not be entitled to both?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well if you have a look at the very top end of the scheme, so for a high income earning mum, that person might be earning $140,000, they might have a very generous employer paid parental leave scheme, and in combination between the employer and the government scheme, that person might bring home an amount of PPL in the nature of $44,000. So in effect they take home, in an 18 week period, more than it takes a low income earner a full year to earn. Now that, I don’t think, is arguably fair in all the context.
Then at the other end of the paid parental leave system we have at the moment, the work test deliberately excludes a whole range of mothers that might work in physical industries – like construction or mining or, say for instance, jockeys. It also deliberately excludes a whole range of mums who work in casual employment and who have substantial breaks in between days of employment.
So, the reform that we’re trying to institute is to make the system overall much fairer by having at least some reasonable limits at that top end of the income scale, and then also making the system more generous and bringing in more casual workers, more mums who work in physical professions who are at the moment, by virtue of the work test, are excluded.
So it is about trying to make the system sustainable and make it fairer at the same time.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
But it is also about making certain, that given that one third of the revenue that the government basically brings in, a third of it is spent on social services, and this is also about saving $1.2 billion isn’t it?
MINISTER PORTER:
It is about making the system sustainable, but not just the paid parental leave system, the overall welfare system.
But as I’ve said – in making the paid parental leave system sustainable, we’re not just trying to make it sustainable for the present generation or year of mothers, we have to look into several decades ahead. And this system will grow, naturally as Australia grows and the population grows, but we think the right place for it to grow is at the bottom end of the income scale where people are in greater need of assistance of that minimum safety net.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
Just a strange one for you, why wouldn’t you do something else? In other words $150,000 is currently the cut off, and that’s where it would sit, why not bring that down to $100,000, why not bring that down to $80,000 which is close on the median income? Because I do notice that those people that do receive the paid parental leave are basically on the median income of about $48,000, which is well below the national average, even below the average of what women earn?
MINISTER PORTER:
But that is a measure, of course, of just one parents income – that’s not a measure of family income, and to the tune of about 95 per cent of all of people who receive PPL are in a family – so may well have more income than that. But look, of course as you pointed out Ross, there are different ways in which you could try and make this fairer, you could just bring down the income test from $150,000 to a lower amount, but in effect that’s being achieved by what we’re suggesting is the way forward. Which is to say that everyone should receive a minimum of 18 weeks at, at least the minimum wage – but if your employer offers you 10 weeks at your wage than we’ll top you up the extra eight week, if it’s 12 weeks we’ll top you up six weeks.
And we think that that’s the best way to achieve, in effect, what you’ve suggested – which is to make the system more generous at the lower income levels and have reasonable limits on access to that full $12,000 amount at the higher income levels. And, only the very highest income earners will miss out on the $12,000, otherwise you’ll get some part access to that depending on how many weeks your employer offers you in terms of your own paid parental leave privately, and we’ll top up the rest.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
And the argument of this is, just to pick up here, the argument here is that you want more women back in the workforce after they’ve had their kids.
MINISTER PORTER:
Well, the system is designed to make it easier for mums to maintain work, to transition back into work after having a reasonable amount of time bonding with baby after birth – so it’s always about balance of course. But yes, part of the system clearly, and a primary part, is to make the transition back to work simpler and easier by providing enough money, which the safety net, to allow for that 18 weeks. It’s not to say that everyone wants to return in 18 weeks, all families are different – some people return at six months, some 12, some don’t return to work – but the point of the 18 weeks as the minimum standard at, at least minimum wage is that it provides this global safety net across Australia where there’s a reasonable time bonding, and also a reasonable expectation to return to work and its meant to facilitate that and make that process easier.
ROSS GREENWOOD:
Christian Porter is out Minister for Social Services – great to have you on the program this evening Christian.
MINISTER PORTER:
Thank you Ross, cheers.