Radio National Drive with Patricia Karvelas
E&OE
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
1.5 million people will get less money under changes to Family Tax Benefits being proposed by the Turnbull Government. They say the savings from the changes will go into funding more affordable child care.
Now this reform is bundled up with cuts to Paid Parental Leave and some, so called, zombie measures, you’ve probably heard that term from the infamous 2014 budget, which remained pretty unpopular with the Senate crossbench.
Christian Porter in the Minister for Social Services, and he’s my first guest on RN Drive – welcome back to the program.
MINISTER PORTER:
Thanks Patricia.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Scott Morrison made quite a splash in Question Time today with a lump of coal and statements about the Opposition having an ideological fear of coal.
How does this reflect the Prime Minister’s stance that energy debate should be ideologically free and technologically agnostic when you’re parading large pieces of coal around?
MINISTER PORTER:
I think the point that was being made was precisely that the way in which you generate electricity in different circumstances and different states shouldn’t be ideological.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
It’s pretty ideological to walk around with a piece of coal isn’t it?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well it’s a bit harder to show gas I guess, in Parliament.
The point he was making was that, it is part of our energy generation mix, and it will be for some time to come and the problems that we are witnessing are run in parallel with the closing down of a range of coal-fired power stations.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
So you think that kind of stunt doesn’t look ideological? To, kind of, parade coal around as if it’s the be all and end all, because that’s how it looked.
MINISTER PORTER:
Well I don’t know whether I join issue with you on that sort of perception of it.
The point that was being made was the point in context of the answer that Scott Morrison was giving, and that is that the Labor Party do seem to have, what is, an ideological obsession with ending coal-fired generation of power in Australia, and that’s not in the best interests of Australians. Particularly not people who work in that industry, it’s been a part of our base-load generation for decades, and it will be for decades to come.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
I want to get to your specific portfolio.
We’ve heard a lot about the families with kids in day care or after school care that are going to benefit, but what about the families with school aged kids? No day care, they don’t go to after school care, they just go to school – these families, they’re going to be set backwards aren’t they?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well you noted at the beginning of this program that there are 1.5 million FTB families, if you like, who receive FTB, and that covers about 3 million children.
About 720,000 of those families have children of child care age, so zero to five years, and 480,000 of those families have children of after school care age, so six to 12.
Once you consider the policy to end, to close down in stages, the end of year supplements then pay virtually all families an increase in a fortnightly rate of $20, it is the case that families who benefit from these reforms are the families who do utilise child care or after school care, or want to, or want to utilise it more. That represents about, potentially, 1.2 million of those 1.5 million families.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Labor says families on Family Tax Benefit A would be $200 a year per child worse off, while those on Family Tax Benefit B would be $350 a year worse off as a family – are these figures correct?
MINISTER PORTER:
No – they say that ignoring the fact that there are in excess of a million of those families who either utilise child care or would like to utilise child care or would like to utilise it more.
So when you factor in the fact that these reforms – the FTB changes pay for reforms in child care that make child care more affordable, more accessible, simpler to navigate; what you have is a situation where, say for instance a person earning $50,000 a year with two children aged under six who uses long day care three days a week at $100 a day; now that person is going to be nearly $2500 better off each year, because they’re going to benefit from the fact that the heavy subsidy for low income families for child care means that they’re not going to pay more than a rate of $15 a day on their child care.
What Labor do is characterise this without the very big benefits that exist for families that use or want to use more child care, or more after school care. And those families are screaming out for reform in this area.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
There are other changes that I know the crossbench want including, also the industry wants, different lobby groups want on your changes. One change that I know Simon Birmingham says he’s considering is making it 15 hours per week that disadvantaged families can access child care – are you close to doing that deal?
MINISTER PORTER:
I did listen to your interview with Simon, and I noted that he said that that’s something that’s been discussed with crossbenchers, and he of course is the Minister in charge and undertakes those discussions and negotiations with the crossbench.
But as you said, that’s something that is a live point of discussion.
What I know Simon also pointed out was that there is a reasonable level – two six hour sessions of child care – for people who earn under $65,000, and who are in circumstances where they can’t meet the activity test. But again, what we say, is that this is very much skewed and focussed to benefit lower income families who use child care and after school care, to make sure that employment is the way in which they can generate family wealth, and improve their circumstances.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
One of the so-called zombie measures not included in this Omnibus Bill is raising the pension age to 70 for those born after 1966.
When are you going to introduce that Bill? Are you still wedded to it?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well it’s not a timing priority at the moment, simply because those changes wouldn’t need to be legislated for many, many years to come.
So as you’ll see I’ve got 16 measures in this Omnibus Bill before Parliament at the moment, so we’re dealing with those first…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Are you still committed to the other one?
MINISTER PORTER:
We are still committed to the policy. And as I noted in Parliament today, members of the Labor Party, many of them are on record noting that increasing the pension age, gradually and steadily, and of course this policy – that is to increase the pension age to 70 – would not affect anyone unless they were born after 1966.
So I might say it’s our generation Patricia, that sort of, are going to have the longevity to justify this kind of policy. This is not a policy that affects anyone near to pension age at the moment at all.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
The changes to the Youth Allowance and Newstart are particularly significant, and they have really – they have very strong opposition from the crossbench. Nick Xenophon is one of the crossbench Senators you need to convince. He’s not happy that those under 25 would have to wait an extra four weeks and really also be put onto the Youth Allowance where they – I think they lose about $45 a week. Here he is:
NICK XENOPHON:
We do not support, in any way, changing that four week waiting period. We believe it is onerous on young people. In terms of shifting people to the Youth Allowance, we have very real concerns about that, but as far as a four week waiting period goes, forget about it.
Will you drop it?
MINISTER PORTER:
No, we’re going to pursue the four week waiting period.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Why?
MINISTER PORTER:
I respectfully disagree with Nick, and we’ve had these conversations as part of our negotiations on this Bill.
The reason I disagree with him, and the reason I think many Australians might agree with the Government on this is that the four week waiting period for the dole, for Newstart, is designed to incentivise employment at the very early stages. And it is focussed on what are known as Stream A Newstart participants, they are the group that are absolutely the most work ready, physically and mentally able, these are the people that it is reasonable to expect will do absolutely everything within their power in those first four weeks to achieve employment.
Those people who are in more vulnerable circumstances, what’s known as Streams B and C of the Jobactive process, those people who have a disability, those who are referred to Disability Employment Services, parents with care of a child, young people who are leaving state care, anyone with a temporary work exemption, they are completely excluded from this process. In fact it excludes more people than it applies to. The people it applies to are those people who have familial supports who are absolutely job ready. And I think many Australians think this would be a very reasonable thing to expect…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Why would you put people who are under 25 in a situation where they are losing $45 a week?
MINISTER PORTER:
You’re referring to there is the policy of aligning the rates of Youth Allowance and Newstart, if you like, for those people at that age.
How I would describe this for your listeners is, that right now, say for instance a 23 year old can in affect choose between three payments; Youth Allowance Student, what’s known as Youth Allowance Other and Newstart.
And Youth Allowance Student and Other are $433 per fortnight, and Newstart is $523 per fortnight.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
That’s right. It’s more money, and it’s still not enough to live on for a lot of people.
MINISTER PORTER:
Well that system structurally disincentivises that young 23 year old from studying, because the option consistently exists for them to go onto Newstart, receive slightly more money, and not pursue studies. And we think that is a very bad structural incentive.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Why don’t you change the system so that they can study, but that they still don’t lose the money? There’s another way of doing it.
MINISTER PORTER:
There is, and in fact that exists at the moment. So if you are studying and you’re on that Youth Allowance Student rate, you have what’s known as a very high income-free area – so not only do you get $433 a fortnight, but you are also able to earn $433 per fortnight before you lose any of your payment. So the fact is, that moving someone from Newstart onto Youth Allowance Student does not mean, if they’re able to engage in the workforce, that they’re materially worse off – but it does stop this terrible incentive against study.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Will you peel it out of the Bill, because Nick Xenophon doesn’t want to vote for it?
MINISTER PORTER:
Again, this is something which will either have enough support in the crossbench to pass through the Senate, or it won’t.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
If it doesn’t, you’ll take it out to get your child care reforms through?
MINISTER PORTER:
We’re only, obviously, interested in moving things through that will pass. Child care is very important to us, but these negotiations will go on.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Just finally, the Government is establishing the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority, the Authority will allow parliamentarians to withhold expense reporting if there’s a chance of self-incrimination. What’s the point if MP’s and Senators can squirm out of it?
MINISTER PORTER:
The Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority is something that is being designed by Scott Ryan, the Special Minister of State – it’s going to have powers to demand information, there’ll be a number of penalties that will be outlined in the Bill, it’ll also have the ability to make binding rulings on Parliamentarians about travel arrangements, and it will be able to withhold travelling allowance.
I do understand that, like many bodies of this type, and indeed I think it’s modelled on the UK, that there are clauses around prevention of self-incrimination – now I think that’s a fairly standard thing that happens in bodies of this type. That does not seem terribly unreasonable. There’s also an ability to ensure that some information is redacted or changed if there’s security concerns. Again it’s modelled very closely, as I understand it, on the UK body which has been very successful in this area.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
LNP Senator, Ian Macdonald, is opposed to the axing of the Life Gold Pass retirement perk for former MP’s, and he says someone needs to argue for politicians because they’re not particularly well paid. He earns $200,000 a year – what’s your reaction to what he’s saying?
MINISTER PORTER:
Look, again, I think that view is wrong-headed, if I can put it that way.
I don’t think that’s a…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Should he pull his head in?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well, I’ll just respectfully say I think that view is wrong.
I think that the broader Australian population thinks that view is wrong, that certainly is a tiny minority view.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Is he embarrassing the Liberal Party going out saying this?
MINISTER PORTER:
Well, the fact is that he was elected by people in his state, and he has the right to voice his view as a Parliamentarian and as a Senator, just as we all have. I just don’t think it’s a very good view.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Just finally, independent Senator Jacqui Lambie has introduced a Private Senators Bill banning the wearing of all full-face coverings, including burqas and niqabs in public – what do you think of that Bill? What do you think of this move?
MINISTER PORTER:
Look, I must say I haven’t read the Bill in its full and complete form. I understand that the ban would be triggered by security levels, or something of that nature.
I don’t think that we should be in the business, governments of telling people how to dress and deport themselves. I understand what it is that she objects to. I myself don’t completely love the idea of young women culturally becoming desensitised to the idea of wearing a burqa, I don’t think it’s a very wonderful thing, but that’s just a personal view. But the idea that governments would get into the environment, or business of determining or dictating to Australians of any religious status, what to wear -I think it’s not a very good idea.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
When will your Child Care Omnibus Bill pass?
MINISTER PORTER:
It’s high priority for the Government, I would imagine that we’ll bring this on for debate very soon in the House of Representatives, and it’ll move up to the Senate shortly after that.
I think it’ll come to a head in March – late March, early April.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Thanks so much for your time.
MINISTER PORTER:
Thank you Patricia.
(ENDS)