Transcript by The Hon Christian Porter MP

ABC News Breakfast – Redress, Minister Cash

Program: Television

E&OE

Subjects: Redress; Minister Cash

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Legislation is set to be introduced today to establish a Commonwealth redress scheme for survivors of institutional child sexual abuse.

Social Services Minister Christian Porter wants states and territories to also adopt the scheme and he joins us now from Canberra. Minister, good morning and welcome to News Breakfast.

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Oh good morning, Virginia.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

So the scheme has been capped. Tell us why you’ve done that.

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well as you noted, one of the important features of the scheme is that it’s a national opt in scheme and any state or territory or indeed any church or charity can and we say should opt into the scheme on what’s known as a responsible entity pays basis. So if you’re an institution, or a church or a charity, and you are responsible for the terrible things that occurred, then you become responsible of course for paying the redress.

And to maximise the ability of the Commonwealth to have the greatest amount of opting in from states and territories and churches and charities, we consulted over the last year and we had to make a determination about what was that amount to set the maximum redress payment at that would maximise the amount of opt in. And that is to the enduring best interest of all of the tens of thousands of survivors of these terrible instances of abuse that occurred, because that is what gives us the ability to have a maximum amount of national coverage.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Well, there’s the states and the opt in aspect, but then we really have to go back don’t we, to what the Royal Commission itself – the Government’s own commissioned Royal Commission – wanted the Commonwealth to do, and that is for any redress scheme to be unlimited. So, with this decision, don’t you now have the Government saying, in a sense, that the unspeakable crime of child sexual abuse actually has a maximum dollar value?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well, with respect you’re wrong about the Royal Commission recommendation, they did not recommend an unlimited amount of redress in individual cases. They also recommended a cap – and any scheme has to rationally have a cap on the amount paid. But the scheme is not merely about the monetary amount of redress, the scheme is about providing the opportunity for those stories to be assessed and heard, for direct apologies to be given by the institutions who are responsible for the wrongs. It also involves trauma-based counselling, proper referrals to medical and psychological services. So it’s always been more than about the money. But the Royal Commission itself recommended a cap, and indeed of the 74, I think, recommendations of the Royal Commission, the overwhelming majority of those recommendations are reflected in this legislation that we’re introducing to Federal Parliament this morning.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Well let’s turn to other big stories of the day, and that’s the situation now of Employment Minister Michaelia Cash. You’re familiar of course with the convention of ministerial responsibility?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Most people in the Westminster system are, yes, so I understand that and of course it’s a

principle that has many evolutions and derivations over time, but yes, of course.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Alright, given that we understand that, why shouldn’t she go after admitting that her office did tip off the media to the AFP raid on the AWU, when we know that ultimately the responsibility always resides with the Minister?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well, I think the first point here is that of course there was a raid on the Australian Workers Union because a magistrate in the relevant jurisdiction accepted that there is a real prospect that evidence was being or was about to be destroyed.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

I’m going to take you to my question about her misleading the Senate committee and why she shouldn’t step down.

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well I’ve known Michaelia Cash for decades and when Michaelia Cash says that she did not know about the actions of her staff, she is absolutely to be believed. She is a truthful person and clearly here a member of her staff has done something very serious and very seriously wrong. But when Michaelia Cash says that she did not know about that, she is to be believed.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Even accepting that, under ministerial responsibility, ultimately in a matter like this it lies with the responsible minister. If this had been say, shadow minister Brendon O’Connor, who’d been adamantly telling a Senate Estimates Committee that his office played no role in tipping off the media to the raid and it turned out that his office had, you’d be calling for his head, yes?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well, your interpretation of ministerial responsibility denies the fact that that concept has always involved a level of knowledge on the part of the person and in its modern derivations always has.

Now, Michaelia Cash has said, and clearly it was the case, that she did not know about the actions of the staff member in question and as soon as she did know, she alerted the Senate committee to that fact. So, in those circumstances I respectfully would disagree with your interpretation of the doctrine of ministerial responsibility.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

But everyone here this morning is looking at this issue of course through the eyes of the lens of the hard politics that’s being played here in Canberra about it. And I want you to reflect still if you could answer that question, on whether, if we were talking here about an opposition member, just how much the Government would be jumping up and down about that minister, that person from the Labor Party having to go?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well, I don’t disagree with you that I’m sure some very hard politics will be played around this issue, but that does not detract from the fact that we have a Minister who did not know about the actions, albeit the very serious and wrong actions of a staff member, and in those circumstances I say again Michaelia Cash is to be absolutely believed when she said that she didn’t know about the actions.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

So we understand Michaelia Cash is due to appear before Senate inquiry at about 9am this morning, do you reckon she’ll still be in her job by then?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

I do of course. And again, I say to you that there was a very serious action by a staff member here, serious and seriously wrong. And that staff member has recognised that and as I understand it resigned and that’s totally appropriate in the circumstances. But Michaelia Cash as a boss in those circumstances simply did not know about the actions of that staff member.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Well let’s go to your other point that you made initially in answering that question about Minister Cash. Of course Minister Cash directed the Registered Organisation Commission to investigate these AWU donations. This of course after your Royal Commission that cost the taxpayers $80 million that went up hill and down dale over all aspects of union corruption. The Government really is determined to besmirch Bill Shorten in any way that you possibly can, aren’t you?

CHRISTIAN PORTER:

Well the key word that you used in that question is direction and the inference I think you’re seeking to draw is that somehow all of the events here in the raid on the Australian Workers Union has been at the direction of the government and nothing could be further from the truth. You have a legitimate investigation into a credible allegation of a breach of very important laws. I understand from the Senate Estimates Inquiry last night that the reason why the warrant for the search was sought from a magistrate was because of credible information from a whistle-blower, that documents pertaining to an important investigation were about to be destroyed. And that was accepted by a magistrate which was then accepted by the AFP. So the idea that there’s some conspiratorial government direction in this investigation, I just utterly reject. It’s simplistic, it’s wrong, and it doesn’t go to the heart of the issue here, which is that a very serious potential breach of a very important law has occurred and it’s being properly and independently investigated.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI:

Christian Porter, thanks for your time today.

(ENDS)