Sky News
E&OE
Subject: Citizenship; Welfare Reform Bill
KIERAN GILBERT:
Joining me now is Liberal frontbencher, Christian Porter. Minister, thanks so much for your time.
If we get to this issue of citizenship first of all; the Labor Party maintains via Tony Burke and the Shadow Attorney-General, that they’ve taken all reasonable steps and basically that that is still a defence. In your view, would that stack up in the High Court?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, Tony Burke is an intelligent person, he would have read the decision and that is not correct. That is not a correct reading of the High Court decision. The issue of reasonableness only attaches to circumstances, which the Court have described where it is irredeemably difficult to renounce citizenship, and that’s when you’re testing reasonableness. If someone has started a process which hasn’t been finished – and whether that’s because the process is long with the British Home Office or any other country – if that process hasn’t been finished in time that is the individual person’s problem.
So, these cases where the renunciation has not taken effect until after nomination, that is a big problem for those individual members.
KIERAN GILBERT:
You don’t think there might be some differences depending on how long the Home Office takes in certain circumstances? If there is a time where- a case where it has gone for months, would the High Court factor that in or not?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, Tony Burke is suggesting that but he is reading something into this decision – paragraph 71 and 72 for anyone interested to read it – that doesn’t exist.
KIERAN GILBERT:
In relation to the Coalition MPs, it’s been suggested that there needs to be more documentation put forward; that’s the argument made by the Shadow Attorney-General. Is there room to do that? Should some of your colleagues stump up more info?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, I’ve not looked at every single document that’s there available but someone like Alex Hawke has provided a document that seems, to me at least, to be totally unequivocal – it simply says there was no citizenship. So, I think you have to look at every document on its merits and every individual case on its merits. But again, Mark Dreyfus today in effect said: well, there are no documents supporting your position. His answer was: well, I know the law.
So, the double standards that are being applied here are absolutely remarkable and, again, I think with respect to Mark Dreyfus that he has been calling for referral for Josh Frydenberg which I don’t think should occur, nor do I think it should it occur actually for Mark Dreyfus’s situation. But that Mark Dreyfus should be calling for that referral in full knowledge that his situation is remarkably similar, to me, shows a level of hypocrisy that is world-standard.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Well, they haven’t released, as part of these declarations, those documents and Mr Birmingham argues that they’re not required to, that simply they make a statement to the Parliament and not every document has to be put forward.
I’ve seen their documents – both Mr Dreyfus and Mr Frydenberg – clearly stating that their relatives, their ancestors were stateless upon arrival. That should be where it ends for both.
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, I agree and Simon Birmingham’s interpretation of the form, which I filled in and every Member of Parliament filled in, is correct, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that there are clear constitutional problems for Ms Keay, Ms Lamb and other people who it appears haven’t had their renunciation affected until after or well after nomination. Now, on any clear reading of the High Court decision, that is a problem and puts them in contravention prima facie of section 44 of the Australian constitution.
KIERAN GILBERT:
I want to touch on something because you’ve been working on this welfare recipients drug testing initiative but that’s not going to get through the Parliament. Can you give us an update on where that’s at? Have you given up on it?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
We have a 200 page welfare reform bill before the Senate. My best assessment now is that all but about six or seven pages of that bill will likely pass through the Senate and in fact, the passage of that bill through the Senate is of critical importance to us. That completely reforms the welfare compliance system and it continues the good work that’s been able to have us achieve results like 140,000 less Australians on welfare now …
KIERAN GILBERT:
But not that drug testing?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
No, I think that there are some difficulties that are going to be presented in getting that part of the Bill through the Senate but that does not mean that we are abandoning drug testing. Labor’s position now …
KIERAN GILBERT:
The rest will go through?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
No one can be perfectly certain, Kieran, with these things but my best assessment is that the rest of it, everything other than drug testing, will likely succeed through the Senate. But look, during six years of Labor they increased the number of working age Australians who were dependent on welfare by 250,000 people. Since we were elected we’ve decreased the number dependent on welfare by 140,000 people.
What we’re doing works. It works for people who become independent and self-reliant, it works for the taxpayer; and the reason it works is because we’ve got job growth, we’re willing to try new things like the cashless welfare card, like drug testing, like stricter compliance …
KIERAN GILBERT:
But the drug testing, you’re considering shelving that?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
No, I …
KIERAN GILBERT:
You’re not worried about stigmatising the individual’s concerned?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, what we want to do is ensure that individuals who have a barrier to employment based around drug use get the help they need.
Now, if we can use the welfare system to compel them into that treatment …
KIERAN GILBERT:
It’s not a nanny state?
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Well, you may call it paternalistic, but so what? If it works and it produces jobs and employment and improves people’s lives? I mean, paternalism and the nanny state’s an argument that’s been raised at the cashless welfare card. You know what? It works. It actually improves the lives of people who are otherwise welfare dependent.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Mr Porter, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
CHRISTIAN PORTER:
Thank you very much.