Transcript by The Hon Alan Tudge MP

Sky News AM Agenda with Kieran Gilbert

Program: Sky News AM Agenda

E&OE.

KIERAN GILBERT:

I’m interested in your thoughts on Stephen Conroy’s comments in his opinion piece in The Australian today about freedom of navigation, that Malcolm Turnbull’s strong on rhetoric but not so strong on action. What do you make of that?

ALAN TUDGE:

Malcolm Turnbull has just capped off a very important visit to the United States and he stopped in at Honolulu on the way home as you just saw. He has not only got the right tone in terms of his language, but he is also developing relationships and putting in place important measures, such as agreements to have in place cooperation on cybersecurity, which is of course so important in our challenge against Islamic extremism.

Malcolm Turnbull has done a very good job in his trip overseas. We are absolutely on the frontline with the United States in the fight against ISIS. As you know, we are the second biggest contributor in the theatre over there in Iraq and overall we have got a very, very strong focus on that led by the Prime Minister.

KIERAN GILBERT:

On the South China Sea though Alan Tudge, you’ve got Stephen Conroy this morning saying essentially that Australia should do more. We know that we’ve had aircraft carrying out such an exercise. That was from reporting carried out late last year, and now it seems to be – it hasn’t been explicit – that Senator Conroy is suggesting we send a ship into there as well.

ALAN TUDGE:

I saw those comments from Senator Conroy and our position in relation to the South China Sea has been very clear for a long time. That is, any discussions should be had and should be resolved peacefully and international law should be abided by.

I’ll leave any further comments to the Defence Minister and the Foreign Affairs Minister in relation to Stephen Conroy’s further comments.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Let’s get Nick Champion’s thoughts on this. It seems that Senator Conroy wants the government to muscle up a bit here. Is it really our place to be doing that in the face of these very real tensions between China and its neighbours.

Isn’t it more the US which underpins this sort of security? How would China react if Australia starts sending in our warships into that region?

NICK CHAMPION:

I guess the question is, Australia is a maritime nation. We are heavily reliant on freedom of navigation particularly through the South China Sea. This is a critical foreign policy and defence policy question for us. It is not just China who are building islands in the South China Sea. Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan are all terraforming islands and have been for some time.

We simply need to resolve this question and to establish freedom of navigation both through diplomatic and international law means, but we also have to demonstrate our commitment to that freedom of navigation and I think that is what Senator Conroy is outlining.

This is a critical question for Australia and it is a critical question for our security. I think we are better off establishing those international norms now. You can’t just do that by theory, you have to do it by practice as well.

KIERAN GILBERT:

The thing is we’ve had RAAF aircraft carrying out these exercises. We know that from last year. The Shadow minister mentions that in his comment piece today that we’ve had aircraft doing this already. Why do we have to extend it to vessels if we’re already in there and expressing support for the United States?

It seems it is more appropriate for a large power like the US to be undertaking this and to be putting pressure on China in this regard as opposed to our navy.

NICK CHAMPION:

I’m not sure that is actually correct that we want our large powers establishing this because that might actually ratchet up tensions. What we want to do is establish the current international law, the current situation, and we want to reaffirm that.

It is often easier for smaller players to do that rather than the big players, but obviously we don’t want to get too far into operational issues and what we may or may not do. But the important thing is, that the whole of the nation, the government, is focused on this question because I think at times, we get distracted with what is going on in the rest of the world understandably because of the devastating situations in places like Syria.

But the South China Sea is absolutely critical and the arc of islands to our north is absolutely critical to both Australia’s economic and defence security. We need to be focused on it as a nation and we need to discuss it as a nation and we have to be mindful that there is no Liberal or Labor in defence policy, we’re all Australians and we all share that fundamental need for our physical and economic security.

KIERAN GILBERT:

This area, the Pacific Command, as I say, it is a massive concentration of US military hardware and it really is our frontline of security, of Australia’s frontline of security through the alliance and with that Pacific base in Honolulu, Harry Harris is obviously a key factor in that hence Malcolm Turnbull’s visit with him this morning.

But the South China Sea very much a backdrop for that meeting this morning, Alan Tudge, because whilst we do not want to escalate tensions the fact is they have been, there have been a number of skirmishes already certainly between China and its neighbours.

ALAN TUDGE:

We certainly do not want to escalate tensions. We do want all players to abide by international law through the South China Sea. That has been our stated position for a very long time and we hope that all players will abide by international law.

I just want to pick up Nick Champion on one point where he said that we are “distracted” by what is occurring overseas or elsewhere. I think it is outrageous to say that our focus on Syria and Iraq is a “distraction” from anything else that we are doing.

That is absolutely a very important issue for us to be tackling at the moment. They are reaching out into Australia, recruiting people from Australia. Australians are going over there into that theatre and there are barbaric acts occurring.

It is absolutely one of the most important things which we’re contributing to at the moment, not only for Australia’s interest, but for the global interest as well.

I take issue with Nick Champion saying that is a distraction from anything else that we are doing.

KIERAN GILBERT:

I’ll get Nick Champion to respond in a moment, but Alan Tudge don’t you concede that in the longer term it is China and this region that pose the biggest geopolitical threat or problem for the US? While ISIL is a barbaric and archaic group carrying out war crimes and atrocities, it is China in its size and power that provide the greatest regional challenge to the United States in the medium to longer term.

ALAN TUDGE:

We all have an interest in China growing and we have an interest in the United States growing. And we as Australians have great relationships with both nations. We will continue to strengthen those relationships. We want to see China grow as it is important for our economy, but it is also important for global security if China is more integrated into the global economy as it is increasingly doing because as countries become more integrated into the global economy, they themselves have a greater interest in ensuring there is overall stability in how players interact.

We’ve over time developed good relationships with China and we’ll continue to do that. Of course, with the United States it has been the bedrock security relationship and the bedrock alliance relationship that we have had for a very long time.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick Champion you can respond to the comment made by Alan Tudge in relation to the Middle East and also just a follow up specifically in relation to China, while you and Stephen Conroy are arguing that we need to play a greater role, isn’t it true that even if you do say that you are looking at all the claimants in that region, China will see any such move as directed at them.

NICK CHAMPION:

Well to take your last point first, obviously we have to be very cautious in terms of diplomacy in this area. We have to assert our right to freedom of navigation but we have to do it in a sensible and diplomatic fashion and diplomacy and foreign policy has a big a role as any defence policy in this region.

On Alan’s second point, I think he was taking a bit of a shot at me but all I was saying is that we can’t afford to be mesmerized by the Middle East or indeed any other region in the northern hemisphere when on our doorstep our critical security interests lie. That is just the geographical reality that the South China Sea, Pearl Harbour, all these areas are critically important for Australia.

We’ve learnt that lesson and one would have thought World War Two when we have troops stationed in the Middle East and they had to be brought back. We don’t ever want to face a situation like that again and diplomacy and defence policy are critical parts to making sure that doesn’t happen.

KIERAN GILBERT:

I want to move on to a few other issues before we go to a break quickly, Alan Tudge, the controversy in Melbourne at the moment surrounding the involvement of a betting agency sponsoring the Australian Open tennis. I know that you in your role as Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister have some engagement with the issue of sports gambling and so on.

What is your take on this sponsorship and the controversy around it?

ALAN TUDGE:

I’m a bit disappointed that the Australian Open has accepted sponsorship from William Hill, a gambling company. I think that all sporting bodies have to be very careful with their relationship with gambling companies that they do not change the fundamental family nature of their sports.

We want the Australian tennis and indeed other sports in Australia to be sports where people are focused on the competition, the calibre of the players and the sportsmanship which goes on, rather than necessarily the betting odds which are coming up and a constant focus on gambling.

I’d hate to see the Australian Open, our premier sporting event in this nation, go down that path.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick Champion, your thoughts on this and further to the sponsorship, the on air coverage and so on of these agencies?

NICK CHAMPION:

Look, I tend to agree with Alan on this. I think it is driving people nuts, the sheer volume of betting advertising in not just the tennis, but nearly every sporting event now. Obviously sport needs to be very careful of the intersection between their revenues and potential revenues on one hand, and the ethics of gambling advertising on the other.

That is a matter that will be debated in the next few days as I’m sure. We did some things in government, we set up a national integrity unit and did some agreements with the states around this area, but it is an evolving area particularly the interaction between mobile phones and sport and betting. It is obviously an area where we as a nation have a clear and pretty hard look at.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Certainly looks like it. Nick Champion, Alan Tudge, stay where you are, quick break. We’ll be right back.

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KIERAN GILBERT:

Let’s look at the front page of The Australian today. Senator Sinodinos cleared by ICAC. Alan Tudge, does this vindicate the Prime Minister for returning him back to a senior ministerial position when he took over the job?

ALAN TUDGE:

Kieran I’ve seen the front page of the Australian today and I’ve read those reports but I do not know the further details behind the ICAC findings. They haven’t been released to date so it is not appropriate for me to comment in detail on that.

What I would say is that I have always held Arthur Sinodinos in immense regard. He is a man of absolute integrity, capability, and is providing to be a very effective minister in the Turnbull government and I hope that he will be a minister in the Turnbull government for a very long time to come.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick Champion, your thoughts on this story given Senator Sinodinos is as you heard from Alan Tudge there one of the most respected people on the Liberal side of politics. He was John Howard’s Chief of Staff for nearly a decade and I think even you as a Labor person would recognise his political brain as a member of parliament.

NICK CHAMPION:

He is certainly very politically effective in removing Tony Abbott from the Prime Ministership and installing Malcolm Turnbull so there is no doubt about his effectiveness as a Senator or a Liberal Party powerbroker.

ALAN TUDGE:

Come on Nick, you can be a bit magnanimous here.

NICK CHAMPION:

I don’t think there is much doubt about that. These are newspaper reports as Alan says, I guess we’ll wait and see the official reports and findings. Instinctively I do not want to labour the point or anything like that, but this is a divided government with two factions in it and we are seeing that every day in the papers.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Let’s look at something we don’t have to await the final report for, we’ve got direct quotes here from the South Australian premier Jay Weatherill. He is basically telling Bill Shorten he has got to accept the reality that there is a massive structural problem with the way the states are funding their hospitals and education.

Nick Champion I’ll read a bit of what he’s had to say to you, that “both major parties at a national level must front up to the fact that we need to find additional revenue. Premier Baird and I have both proposed positive ideas for dealing with this reality.”

He is basically saying to federal Labor you’ve got to get beyond your instinctive blocking and opposition to any rise in the consumption tax.

NICK CHAMPION:

Jay is entitled to his views but I am stunned that any Labor premier would be out there advocating an increase in the GST which is a regressive tax on working and middle class Australians and a regressive taxation assault on the Labor Party’s constituency.

It is frankly beggar’s belief that we read these things in the paper but we do and I guess we have to take these views with a grain of salt and keep moving on.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But he wants to fund schools and hospitals, doesn’t he?

NICK CHAMPION:

It doesn’t matter if you are funding schools and hospitals if the money is raised off the back of poor and working and middle class Australians while the top end of town skate free, then that is not a fair or an Australian proposal, is it? It is not a decent proposal.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But they are not going to do that, are they? There would have to be compensation.

NICK CHAMPION:

I joined the Labor Party to oppose a 15 per cent GST. I joined when John Hewson first proposed it in Fightback! all those years ago and I will continue to oppose it no matter what advice we get from various state premiers or state leaders, including the state premier of South Australia.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Alan Tudge, your reflections on that contribution, the latest one from Jay Weatherill this morning?

ALAN TUDGE:

I think Jay Weatherill shows what a small person Bill Shorten is in relation to this issue because whilst we do not always agree with what the Labor premier of South Australia says, at least he has the courage to put forward ideas which could be for the benefit of the nation.

In this instance, he has been on the front foot for some time suggesting that we need a change to our tax arrangements. He has also made important contributions in relation to our federation debate.

Meanwhile, the only thing that Bill Shorten and the Labor Party can do federally is just say no to absolutely everything. Yes they have put up a few tax proposals already, but they are not willing to engage on the substance of a tax debate which we are having at the moment in this country.

I think that makes Bill Shorten unfit to be the Prime Minister if he can’t engage on one of the most important economic issues of the times, and that is in relation to our tax system.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick?

NICK CHAMPION:

The Liberal Party could close a massive taxation loophole in the form of superannuation tax concessions. They could close it tomorrow or a couple of weeks’ time.

KIERAN GILBERT:

[Inaudible]

NICK CHAMPION:

Well we don’t know. They could have closed it last year. They could close it on the first day of parliament this year, but they have refused to do so. We’ve seen this intransigence and protection of the top end of town. We know that they are busy closing the tax transparency, they’ve failed to crack down on multinational taxation and everybody in this country just wants people to pay their fair share of tax but what this government does, what this Liberal government wants to do, is lift the tax on poor, on working and on middle class Australians and I won’t be a part of it and neither will the Labor Party.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Well the Labor Party in South Australia might. Nick Champion, thank you very much for that. We’ll chat to you soon. Alan Tudge, appreciate it, we’ll see you soon.

ALAN TUDGE:

Thanks so much Kieran.