Sky News – The Latest with Laura Jayes

LAURA JAYES:

Alan Tudge, thanks so much for your time.

ALAN TUDGE:

G’day Laura.

LAURA JAYES:

It was interesting to see today some of the headlines that came out of this speech from Noel Pearson that he lamented the fact that Tony Abbott’s Prime Ministership had been cut down, that he didn’t pursue a political career 15 years ago. Do you think Noel Pearson has still got time for that?

ALAN TUDGE:

I do. I’m a big admirer of Noel Pearson. I have known him for 15 years or more and he was a former boss of mine actually when I was his deputy director at the Cape York Institute for a few years before I became a Member of Parliament. I think he’s one of our greatest intellects and certainly one of our great leaders.

I think many people have tried to encourage him to go into politics over the years, but he’s chosen a different path and has had incredible influence from outside of the Parliament on indigenous issues, on welfare issues, on education policy more broadly.

It was the first time I’ve heard him lament today, though, at the National Press Club that he wished that he had of run for politics which surprised me a little. He’s only 50 and I think that the door would be open to political parties of many persuasions should he choose to put his hand up.

LAURA JAYES:

Part of the reason, I thought today he feels like he hasn’t been able to effect enough change from outside the system. Alan Tudge, today he says the bureaucracy is broken. Is it?

ALAN TUDGE:

I don’t think it is but I’d say that government in almost all of Australia’s history has not covered itself in glory in relation to the advancement of aboriginal people. I think that many governments for a long time now have had fantastic intentions but it hasn’t always resulted in getting better results on the ground.

Certainly this Government, the Abbott Government and now the Turnbull Government has put indigenous affairs right at the top of the political agenda. As you know Tony Abbott became the Prime Minister for Indigenous Affairs, the first time ever that we’ve had the Prime Minister take on that portfolio in his department. I think that did give it a lot of status and a lot of authority within the Government.

I think we have seen some changes over the last couple of years but there’s an awful long way to go and we still need to continue to work together- government, with aboriginal people on the ground, with the corporate sector as well who are increasingly important.

LAURA JAYES:

Alan Tudge what we heard from Noel Pearson today was effectively calling on a whole rethink on how we approach indigenous affairs. He said that the Minister presiding over a department hasn’t worked. He called on the Turnbull Government to use its innovation agenda when it comes to social policy in indigenous affairs.

Isn’t it time that we came up with something a little more radical perhaps?

ALAN TUDGE:

It’s a very good point and I’d like to think that we are being innovative in some of our social policy prescriptions.

As you know Laura I’m leading the initiative of the introduction of the cashless debit card in a couple of trial sites across Australia. It’s one of the most technologically advanced debit cards that will be on the market coming to the first trial community in March and there’s other reforms we are trying to do.

We’re very open to ideas though. We are across all of government, but particularly so in the social policy area in these very difficult pressing areas.

I think that one of the things that we’re trying to do, and I think we’re getting towards this end, is being able to have much more tailored solutions on the ground; solutions which are worked up with local people on the ground as well. And I think that if you’ve got the buy-in and you’ve got the ownership of local people of those initiatives in partnership with government then you’ve got a greater chance of having success on the ground also.

LAURA JAYES:

But that’s what he’s talking about isn’t it when he’s talking about the frustration of the bureaucracy that there’s not enough direct intervention of communities and we seem to approach the indigenous population as one homogenous group. Now there is not a one size fits all approach here would you agree?

ALAN TUDGE:

I completely agree. In fact every region across Australia is quite distinct and quite different. It’s often different people, they’ll have different languages and different cultural practices in each group and there’ll be…

LAURA JAYES:

Sorry to interrupt but isn’t this why there’s been such a good response to the healthy welfare card because the Federal Government has directly engaged with communities and asked them to buy-in. If this works and we know there’s a trial for the next six months, one year- remind me what that is- but if this works isn’t this an approach you can take to other areas of indigenous policy?

ALAN TUDGE:

I certainly think so. I’ve been leading that effort and we’ve been engaged with communities on the ground and in essence worked up local solutions for those communities. They’ve co-designed both the card itself but also the services and other initiatives which have gone around that card, and so it is very much tailored for those local areas.

There is enormous buy in from the community leaders and the leadership from those community leaders there. I do think that is a model which we can take elsewhere. In fact, I think it is the only model that is going to get sustainable change.

That concept…..the philosophy that the concept underpins, is also in Noel Pearson’s Empowered Communities report which does suggest that we have a different governance arrangement and much more engaging at that regional level with the leaders on the ground.

LAURA JAYES:

He was lamenting the fact, as well, that the Government hadn’t properly engaged when it came to those reports. He, I think, nominated that report and a number of others. Over the last couple of decades we have had report after report. It is focused on empowerment and we still haven’t really found a solution.

I mean, what do you say to that? Has there not been enough government engagement? He said today in his speech that he meets some of these bureaucrats and it is clear that they haven’t even read these reports.

ALAN TUDGE:

I think there has been a lot of government engagement over the years, but not necessarily the right engagement. I think that in some communities, Laura, the government engagement has actually lead to a proliferation of services which don’t talk to each other and at the end of the day, don’t get much progress on the ground.

What Noel Pearson is talking about, which I think is correct, is the right engagement where you are empowering local people at the same time. I think his report is a very good one, and we will be responding to it very shortly.

Already, some of the principles embedded in that report, of empowering local people, making them partners in issues which are designed for a particular region, are being implemented and we talked about an example of that just a minute ago.

LAURA JAYES:

He said Indigenous recognition when it comes to a referendum should be the first cab off the rank. It should be considered before we even start to talk about a referendum on the republic. Do you fear that the debate we have seen over the last couple of days and the people who have been out really championing this cause, yes, they totally believe in it and they are absolutely right to, but do you fear that this could swamp what is really, a bigger issue?

ALAN TUDGE:

I don’t think the republic debate which has emerged over the last couple of days will overwhelm the discussion we are having about Indigenous constitutional recognition. It is one of those things Laura, that every Australia Day, it seems the republic debate rears its head and someone gives it a bit of a prod along. I think it will probably fade away over the next couple of days as there isn’t a strong grassroots movement for a republic at the moment.

In relation to Indigenous constitutional recognition, we have already been discussing this for some time, as you know. We made it an election commitment to take a referendum question to the Australian people.

LAURA JAYES:

It seems to have fallen by the wayside though. Is it as much because we can’t figure out a strategy here or is it as much because even among Indigenous leaders and Indigenous groups, there is not solid agreement yet?

ALAN TUDGE:

I think that there is a clearer strategy now and yes, there hasn’t been as much discussion about that over the last couple of months, but I think it will ramp up again over the next month or two. It was interesting ….Noel Pearson’s comments at the National Press Club, where he indicated his great optimism in relation to the process which we now have to head towards constitutional recognition.

That includes a series of conferences which we will be embarking upon – Indigenous specific conferences and broader conferences over the next twelve months. They are going to be beginning very shortly and that itself will stimulate further discussion and debate about the question.

LAURA JAYES:

There is plenty going on in the Indigenous space as there always seems to be. At the top of the program there is no lack of funding, no lack of goodwill in this space, but every now and then we – Noel Pearson’s speech comes along, and Stan Grant and it does, for a couple of months at least, spur on more momentum, but then it eventually falls by the wayside. How can this time be different?

ALAN TUDGE:

I think that is right, and I have lamented about that myself, Laura, that unfortunately Indigenous Affairs doesn’t always stay on top of the political agenda. It does from time to time, and then it goes off again. I guess I reflect about the key thing that Prime Minister Abbott did, and put Indigenous Affairs right central in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, and him being the prime Minister for Indigenous Affairs which Prime Minister Turnbull has continued.

I think at the very least, that does keep it higher on the political agenda, but I think it is up to all parliamentarians and all members of the media and indeed the broader Australian public to constantly be thinking about these issues and making sure they are front and centre because sadly, Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders remain the most disadvantaged group in Australia.

There has been significant progress in many areas and we shouldn’t understate that. In fact we should celebrate the progress that has been made but at the same time we still have some devastating areas where we feel the progress is very, very slow and where there is conditions which are completely unacceptable.

LAURA JAYES:

Alan Tudge, thanks so much for your time tonight. We will speak to you again.

ALAN TUDGE:

Thanks Laura.