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E&OE
Laura Jayes:
Welcome back to Lunchtime Agenda. Joining me now on my panel is Labor Senator Sam Dastyari and Parliamentary Secretary Concetta Fierravanti-Wells. I always think that I’m going to get your name wrong; it’s a beautiful name.
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
‘Operatic’, says Alan Jones. [Laughs]
Laura Jayes:
[Laughs] Oh, lovely! Well, we won’t be discussing Alan Jones today, but we will discuss asylum seekers. We have heard from Richard Marles in the first part of the programme. Concetta, first to you. Do you accept, at least, that the secrecy, the policy of secrecy, doesn’t sit well with everyone?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Look, we’ve made it clear, and we made it clear to the Australian public at the last federal election, that we would be stopping the boats. We have complied and continue to comply with our international obligations, including ensuring safety at sea. And that’s what we said that we would do and that’s what we are doing.
Laura Jayes:
Senator Dastyari, are you comfortable with this advance processing? This is, after all, something Labor did introduce.
Senator Dastyari:
Yeah, not at all. Not at all. And I think that this entire process, I think how the issue’s been handled, the idea in which you are looking at, you know, someone in the vicinity with 150 or so Tamil potential refugees being handed over to the Sri Lankan government on water, I think is hugely concerning. And what’s really concerning is if you’re going to make those kinds of drastic actions, then the Australian public should be part of that discussion. I think the secrecy, I think the hidden nature of this debate, I think is hugely concerning to a lot of people. And frankly, if Scott Morrison was proud of what he was doing, he would be out front and centre. He wouldn’t be hiding behind this whole ‘I’m not going to talk about these matters’. I think it’s a huge concern.
Laura Jayes:
Let’s get into some of the detail here though. This advance processing was introduced under Labor. It was nineteen questions then, it wasn’t done out at sea, it was done at Christmas Island. What the Government is doing is arguably a more streamline process asking these questions on a vessel out at sea. That seems to be the only problem here, is that correct?
Senator Dastyari:
No, I think there’s bigger problems here. I think firstly you have to have a better look at the Sri Lankan situation, and where things are at in Sri Lanka and …
Laura Jayes:
But under Labor, a thousand Sri Lankans were returned.
Senator Dastyari:
Yeah, after they had been properly processed on land. This whole idea that we are stop people in the middle of boats, it appears… Look, a lot of the details haven’t even come out yet because of this air of secrecy around it. But it appears some kind of via teleconference processing of people has taken place to make these decisions. The real issue here is the lack of transparency. Come out, be open, be clear. And you know, I think people like Connie here come at it from a very, very genuine place, and they come at it from a genuine public policy place, but, but I think there’s a lot of concern and it’s not being helped by the fact that it’s coming out of a secret process.
Laura Jayes:
Concetta, we did hear the Prime Minister this morning criticise some activists for interfering in this case, but they have every right to be batting for asylum seekers. If they’re not going to, I guess, stand up for them, who will?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Well, I think we have proper legal processes in Australia, and certainly up to people to challenge the system, and that’s our rule of law. The point here is that we are not going to talk about operational matters. That has been the policy that Minister Morrison has been advocating, and we are not going to run a running commentary to then enable the people smugglers to benefit from that information. And can I just say in the end, in terms of stopping the deaths at sea, and we had over a thousand deaths at sea under the changed border protection policies under the Labor years, and I don’t believe that that’s a humane and compassionate way of dealing with this issue. It is a difficult issue. It is a complicated issue. But the reality is that we have dealt with the situation, we believe, in accordance with international conventions and continue to do so.
Laura Jayes:
Okay. I want to move on now to look at the special sitting of Parliament today with the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. And both the Japanese Prime Minister and our Prime Minister Tony Abbott did address the elephant in the room, and that is, China.
Prime Minister Abe [tape]:
We want to make Japan a country that will work to build an international order that upholds the rule of law. Our desire is to make Japan a country that is all the more willing to contribute to peace in the region and beyond.
PM Abbott [tape]:
Ours is not a partnership against anyone. It’s a partnership for peace, for prosperity and for the rule of law. Our objective is engagement and we both welcome the greater trust and openness in our region, that’s exemplified by China’s participation in this year’s RIMPAC naval exercises.
Laura Jayes:
That was Prime Minister Abbott and Prime Minister Abe a little earlier. Sam Dastyari, were you surprised that China was spoken about so openly?
Senator Dastyari:
Look, I don’t think, I think it’s wrong to say surprised. But look, I’ve had a long concern about this for a while, and so have a lot of other people who were involved the Australian public policy, and that is we have to be very, very careful in how we deal with disputes in, you know, South China and other seas over territorial matters. Let’s be clear about this. There is an ongoing dispute between Japan and China over territorial matters, over a small number of islands. But, that is not the place for Australia to be involved in. I was very critical, very critical when we signed up to the agreement with the United States in October last year, and Bali, and with the Japanese as well.
Laura Jayes:
So what has the Prime Minister done wrong today then?
Senator Dastyari:
What we’re doing wrong and what we have to be careful is not be giving the impression to our largest trading partner, which is China, and a trade we do with China is double the trade we do with Japan, that we’re taking sides in their disputes. And we shouldn’t be taking sides in their disputes. Now, I think there’s nothing wrong with the Prime Minister of Japan coming here. I think it’s a good thing. I think a trade relationship, and a better trade relationship, with Japan is something everybody will support. But let’s not forget here that it is very, very important that we as a nation not be seen to be taking sides in disputes involving China. And increasingly, increasingly this Government is giving the impression that they’re taking sides.
Laura Jayes:
Concetta, would this, do you think, put a trade agreement with China at risk?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
I don’t think so. I think the Prime Minister talked about the need for peaceful negotiations and engagement in the region and that this was not a partnership against anyone. And I think, let’s not forget, that fifty percent of our trade is now with China, South Korea and with Japan. And so we are an important supplier in the region and as the Prime Minister also said, a very important energy superpower. And so it’s important that, for our own economic prosperity, that we do have free trade agreements, and it’s, can I say, it’s good to see that these free trade agreements are now happening. Whereas, very pointedly I must say, Sam, this morning Prime Minister Abe did make a reference to this process started seven years ago and is now being brought to conclusion under an Abbott Government.
Laura Jayes:
Sam Dastyari, we have to let you go because you have the first question in the Senate Question Time today and Penny Wong will kill you if you’re stuck here so thank you for joining us today. But Concetta, stay with us, and I also want to draw you to some comments that Clive Palmer made with… David Spears, our political editor, a little earlier today. This is what he had to say in regards to the fuel excise.
David Spears [tape]:
The Government have at least some hope on things like fuel excise, on some of the other budget measures like university reform. Is there room for negotiation there?
Clive Palmer [tape]:
We don’t want to give them a good sleep between now and the next Senate. We want them to stay on their toes. We want them to be thinking about things.
Laura Jayes:
Concetta, how do you think the Prime Minister should approach negotiation with Clive Palmer? I know it’s very early days in the Senate, but Clive Palmer does seem to give mixed signals. How do you propose that he deals with it?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Look, I think that certainly there’s been a lot of talk about the make-up of the new Senate. And can I just say at the outset, it’s really good to see the diversity that is now in the Senate. And I think it is much more reflective of contemporary Australian society.
Laura Jayes:
But do youconcede that, looking at Budget measures, there’s about twenty to thirty billion dollars’ worth of savings measures that just won’t get through.
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Look, as the Prime Minister has said, it is our intention to deal courteously and methodically with the cross-bench Senators and all the different parties that make up the cross-benches in the Senate. We will listen to their suggested amendments and I think that that’s the way that we should deal with this.
Laura Jayes:
But you can see that some things will have to go back to the drawing board. There will be some horse-trading. The Medicare co-payment, for example, really doesn’t look like it has any hope of getting through. But do you think the Prime Minister should look at lowering the amount from seven dollars to maybe five, exempting pensioners or low income earners?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Laura, we went to the last federal election and gave some clear commitments and in particular about fixing the budget. And I appreciate that people, and there are indications about spending money, but if we’re not… We need to save money to be able to fix the budget, and I appreciate that there will be argy-bargy in the Senate, and the colour and movement that has been the Senate, and will continue to be in the Senate. But the reality is that I think that these things will be worked through, as the Prime Minister has said, methodically and taking into account the views of the cross-benches and looking at ways that we can achieve our objective, which is to govern for all Australians.
Laura Jayes:
There has been some very personal attacks levelled at the Prime Minister. From Jacqui Lambie being, I think, the lead in that.
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Jacqui’s my new neighbour across the hallway, actually. [Laughs]
Laura Jayes:
There you go. But that isn’t helpful in the entire, I guess, tone of the Parliament. What would you say to Jacqui Lambie?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Look, there has been a lot of, I referred to it the other day as bit of megaphone politics, and that’s understandable in the current climate. But the reality is that people will find their feet and that’s been my experience. I mean, I’ve been in the Senate now for almost ten years, and I think that you find that the most complex of issues, through discussion, through understanding of the complexities of those issues, you can find common ground there. And I believe that…
Laura Jayes:
Common ground… Tony Abbott and the government needs to concede some ground? Define common ground.
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
As part of this process, there’s also working through and explaining why we are doing certain things and that I think has been my experience. And I think that as the time goes on and as people settle down, yes, there will be some argy-bargy. But as part of that process, we also do, and the Senate also has to understand this is the Government’s programme. We are certainly there to explain and to consider amendments.
Laura Jayes:
But as someone who has observed the ups and downs of politics, the polls don’t look great and the public hasn’t really swallowed your argument. So what do the next six months need to be for the Abbott government in terms of selling this message, because it hasn’t worked so far?
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Look, the reality is that we were left with a very difficult circumstance. Our financial circumstances of cumulative deficits of $123 billion dollars and if we hadn’t taken remedial action, $667 billion in debt over time. We said that our highest priority was to fix the budget and so as I’ve indicated, that is our objective, and we are going about that as we had promised the Australian public that we would.
Laura Jayes:
Concetta Fierravanti-Wells thanks so much for joining us. I will let you get to Question Time.
Senator Fierravanti-Wells:
Thank you.
Laura Jayes:
And that’s where we take you now. To the Senate for Question Time.