2GB Ray Hadley
E&OE
RAY HADLEY:
Firstly good morning to you. New figures show Sydney’s west and south west has the highest concentration of people on the DSP per postcode in NSW. Liverpool, Warwick Farm 4,381 followed by Mount Druitt and Shalvey 3,830. There are 3,502 DSP recipients in Campbelltown. Fourth on the list, not surprisingly, Nimbin, around Lismore and then the Central Coast comes in with 2,915. These figures are alarming given where in these areas where they just keep going up and up and up.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that is why we’re taking a good hard look at how we’re running the DSP and already with some of the reforms we have implemented on the first wave of some reviews 300 people have already been kicked off the DSP for not meeting the requirements and we intend to further improve these integrity measures going forward. As you know we have got the requirement to go on a Government doctor now which is a significant change. What we are seeing with the DSP we have got less and less people now coming on. I think we are getting a handle on the flow into the system but there’s still a very big system which has a lot of people in it and I want to make sure that people who have genuine disabilities are getting the support but those who frankly could be working more well we have got to encourage them to do that.
HADLEY:
Figures from September showed 826,000 people claiming the DSP in fact to be precise 826,763 and back then the Telegraph published two thousand a week. Are you saying today that that figure has decreased?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am saying it has stabilised and it is sitting at around 830,000 people on the DSP. It went up by over a 100,000 under the previous Government and with the new impairment tables which came in towards the end of their time and the other changes we have introduced I think we are getting a handle on the flow into the system. But the budget for the DSP is still growing by just over five per cent a year and this is one of the reasons why we have got to make our safety net sustainable and we have got to have serious conversations about how we do that. We just can’t keep putting more and more people on these payments with the payment rates going up and then expect the system not to go bung.
HADLEY:
I can’t claim to know you well, even though we have been talking regularly for the last few years. We don’t mix socially we share a love of rugby league; your beloved sharks went down again last night.
MINISTER MORRISON:
They did.
HADLEY:
But if someone, and someone was talking to me about this last week who knows I talk to you regularly and said would you view Scott Morrison as a dummy spit sort of bloke? I said well to be fair no I’d say I am more likely to be a dummy spitter than Scott and I am pretty sure that other mates of mine are bigger dummy spitters even than me. Now I do that because there is a story doing the rounds that in the Expenditure Review Committee you spat the dummy, surprising everyone even though I wasn’t there it surprises me and then you – yeah this is funny. The allegation is you slammed your folder on the desk and walked out and then came back because you forgot your folder.
MINISTER MORRISON:
All very salacious isn’t it, just more gossip and rubbish out of Canberra where people…
HADLEY:
Did you forget you folder? Let me get to that because that would be good, even if you didn’t dummy spit even if you sort of got a little bit testy and walked out because that can happen because you know if you have a blue with someone and then you say that’s it I’m out of here and you walk out and then you say oh I forgot my car keys.
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is complete rubbish.
HADLEY:
So it didn’t happen?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is complete rubbish as the Prime Minister’s office said as well on the weekend and frankly if we are going to have a better quality debate in Canberra then journalists frankly have got to write less of this sort of gossip and maybe we could have a few stories on policy.
HADLEY:
Let’s do that. So but you know you would admit that if you do get a bit cranky about something even at home.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I’m a passionate person.
HADLEY:
But even at home if you walk out and you say that’s it I’ve had enough and you have got to walk back in and get your car keys or something you forgot you sort of feel a bit stupid don’t you.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes, I can say that didn’t happen on this occasion. What people should know though is I am pretty passionate about this stuff and one of the things I do is I argue pretty strongly for my case, Ray, and people can expect that from me. People who are arguing a different position can expect that as well.
HADLEY:
So if you were to go to the Expenditure Review Committee we can get a guarantee that you would argue feverishly for your position…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Of course.
HADLEY:
But you wouldn’t storm out?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No. I have never walked out of any meeting because I don’t think that is the way to conduct oneself.
HADLEY:
But you would get frustrated?
MINISTER MORRISON:
We are dealing with big issues and there are a lot of challenges we have to get across. Minister’s all go into ERC, I am on the ERC and Ministers passionately put their case as they should. There should be robust debate about this stuff because it is very important.
HADLEY:
Someone just in the middle of this has said to me and I did this story, this is quite a serious one about this bloke who married the 12 year old girl which happened during your period. Anyway he got seven and a half years, the 27 year old from Lebanon and maximum of ten. There may be an appeal by, would you believe by the defence. John said from Wagga Wagga Ray you reported that the Lebanese national was jailed for seven and a half years, he is a Lebanese National will he be deported at the conclusion of his sentence? I think you would appreciate this I wrote back to John and said not if Chris Bowen is Immigration Minister.
MINISTER MORRISON:
That’s true. One of the things I can give him confidence about is when I was Minister we changed the law where there was an automatic expulsion on your visa when you were convicted of such an offence.
HADLEY:
Yes, it is over two years anyway.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes, so he will be punted.
HADLEY:
He is gone, he is gone. Now back to more serious issues after we got you admitting that you do get testy from time to time when you spit the dummy. The computers that run Centrelink are in desperate need of an upgrade we are told. The Australian reports Cabinet is considering a $1 billion plan to replace a computer system which was last – well modified from the 1980s. We all know that with computers if you try to modify them it just doesn’t work. Eventually you have got to bite the bullet and say we need 2015 technology.
MINISTER MORRISON:
This is costing us a lot of money to run a fairly antiquated system. This system was introduced when Bob Hawke was the Prime Minster and Peter Brock was winning at Bathurst. That’s how long ago it was and it does need an upgrade and Minister Payne, Marise Payne, you’ve had her on this programme she has been working feverishly on this ever since coming into the job. It is a huge job, this is a system that delivers 400 million payments every day, 50 million transactions and there is as much computer code on this thing that is required to run 75 space shuttles. It does need a big overhaul and the government is obviously working through that process. It is a bit like moving from the old telephone exchange. I see there is quite a funny cartoon in the Australian today with me moving the – like the old switchboard. It is a bit like that maybe not as antiquated as that but if we don’t fix then we won’t get the savings on how we run the system and the efficiencies for people who use the system as well and importantly on this Ray it will help us better find people who are ripping the system off because of the way we can match data and use the information in that system to find the people who are having a big loan on the system, the taxpayers. As I have said eight out of ten income taxpayers go to work every day just to pay for the welfare bill of this country.
HADLEY:
A lot of money. Now you have announced extra funding for the drought affected areas in New South Wales and Queensland and the poor people in south-eastern Queensland and north-western New South Wales.
MINISTER MORRISON:
That’s right.
HADLEY:
Now the amount of money isn’t huge in budget terms but I suspect it is more about providing support for social and support services within those local government areas?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes it is for family and relationship counselling because as we know when people really get under pressure and in situations [inaudible] it is just horrific and that puts a lot of pressure on families. There are some really great services that are run throughout those districts by various charitable organisations that provide that support and it comes on top of the $10 million or so we are already providing into those. It needed more help and we decided to provide more help. Now that runs until the end of June. It was always going to be for a period of time payment but we will obviously keep a close eye on that and Barnaby and I are working very closely. Barnaby has been an absolute champion for the people of rural NSW and Queensland over the drought. He never lets us forget what families and farmers and those communities are going through and this is a small thing to do but it is an important thing to do.
HADLEY:
A question without notice from a listener, Mark. Can you ask the Minister if the DSP recipients went from the DSP to the dole? What’s the point if the tax payers are still paying for the people who aren’t working? How are you going to fix that, if they go from one level of support to another level of support?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that means they are getting paid less for a start so there is a saving when people are moving off the DSP if they are able to work and then we have got to get them into a job and that is the next challenge and that is where Eric Abetz and I and Luke Hartsuyker work together to get people job-ready and into a job. So if you go off the DSP then you are obviously saving the taxpayer money because you are on a lower payment but the better payment is to be on one when you are on an employer’s payroll rather than the taxpayers’.
HADLEY:
There has been a lot of talk about the future of the age pension particularly after the release of the government’s Intergenerational Report. According to the report the population is aging, of course it is, the proportion of people of working age paying taxes to support the welfare system will reduce over time. What is the answer, I know that Joe Hockey spoke about staying in the workforce longer and I’m doing my part for it at the moment but I mean the reality is I get emails and calls every day of my working life from people over the age of 50 who are put on the scrap heap and can’t crack it because they are over the age of 50. There has to be some sort of change the way employers view people over the age of 50. 50 is the new 30, 60 is the new 40 and so on. There are very productive people over the age of 70 doing a lot and should be able to contribute for far longer than they do.
MINISTER MORRISON:
There are things that government need to do but there are things employers need to do and I was down having a look at the way Crown is working with that in Western Australia and Victoria the other day and they learned from their programme for Indigenous employment and employment for people with disabilities and they have learned a lot of lessons on how they can get people post 50, post 55, post 60 working for them and training them to do that. So there is a job for employers to do there.
Equally though for all of us as we get older obviously some of us can’t continue to do the same jobs we have done through most of our lifetime so we need to think about that early. Don’t leave it until you are 60 or 62, start thinking about it when you are 45 or 50 about how you might transition. I heard a story the other day Ray, there was a bloke who was about my age and he went to see his employer, he was in the building trade and he said to him, his employer, look I would like to stay with you for a lot longer but I can’t keep doing this sort of work until I am 65, I’d like to retrain to do job x or y and he got knocked back. That was the best offer I suspect that employer was going to get from a bloke who worked hard, had been with the company a long time, was thinking about his future with that company and I think there has to be a bit of a change whether it is us as individuals, employers, the government policies that sit around this we have got to work this out together and I am disappointed on the pension that we want to make it sustainable, we want to make sure it is adequate. The Labor party’s policies on pensions is to scare pensioners, that’s it, it is not a policy they are just trying to scare pensioners.
The facts are the pension goes up every March, every September, it will again this March and we are having a conversation and debate about how we can make the pension sustainable for the long term. So it is there for the next generation not just for this generation.
HADLEY:
Minister thanks as always, do me one favour I know privacy laws prevent me from knowing the answer but the surname of the people we started talking about prior to your arrival on air is Ngati could we check how many members of that family are on the government drip so to speak?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Ray, I noted the story with great interest.
HADLEY:
Thank you very much, talk to you next week.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks a lot.