5AA Leon Byner
E&OE
LEON BYNER:
Well let’s meet the bloke who is often known as a straight talker. You don’t get too many weasel words out of him, you might not always agree with him but he tends a spade a spade and I think we all like that. Scott Morrison, how are you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It’s great to be here in Adelaide.
BYNER:
Why are you here by the way?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I’m down here doing a few things with Matt Williams today. I will be here for a couple of days. We’re talking to some seniors today about some issues and I am also down here to meet with Kate Ellis over the childcare package and I will be catching up with Nick Xenophon. So the business of government continues as well as the packages we are working on.
BYNER:
I want to just break down some of these meetings you are having today because Kate Ellis introduced a very good scheme where if you wanted childcare at a reasonable price you could get it. Now a lot of this has been rorted and I notice that one public affairs programme on television has really pointed out that we could be losing hundreds of millions of dollars across Australia from parents simply giving their kids to someone else and all of a sudden getting a benefit. Now that wasn’t the way the scheme was intended to be. Have you done something about that?
MINISTER MORRSION:
We have done a number of things about that. We set up a special compliance unit. Just yesterday in fact we had an arrest in Albury for someone who was allegedly rorting this scheme. We have also been able to crack down on about 70 million worth of fraud in this area over the past 12 months or so. We also introduced a regulation to deal with particularly this issue of child swapping in Family Day Care. Now there were some unintended consequences of that which I noticed when speaking to people when I came into the portfolio late last year early this year. So we have held back on that and we have done a bit more consultation with the family day care sector. Basically what it would have done -what the rort was if someone is running a family day care centre and someone else is running a family day care centre and they basically swap their own kids with each other and claim a big benefit. It’s a rort. It has to stop. But there are legitimates cases where some of these things happen where people have to go and study or people have kids with special needs and disabilities and so on so we have had to work through some of those practical issues. But we are cracking down Leon. The AFP showed that yesterday in Albury and our specialised compliance unit, as I said some $70 million dollars’ worth of fraud being avoided.
BYNER:
Will there be more stings soon?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I expect so. That’s the work of this group working together with the Australian Federal Police. I do want to stop the rorts when it comes to this area. Whether it’s in child care, whether it’s in DSP, whether it is in any other area of welfare fraud because eight out of ten income taxpayers go to work every day and that is what is required to pay for our $150 billion a year welfare bill.
BYNER:
Ok now we have got about 800,000 plus on disability pensions. Is it your Government’s intention to try and get that number down substantially?
MINISTER MORRISON:
We have already had some success in flattening the intake into the DSP. We have done that through a number of measures. One of the ones that Kevin Andrews introduced when he was Minister is now you have to go to a Government doctor and that applies to everyone from the first of July. Previously we were targeting only those aged under 35 and we are also starting to work back through a particular caseload who have come under their own doctors and ensuring it is going to those people who really need it. This is about need, not entitlement.
BYNER:
So is there a push by your Government to reduce the number of people on disability pensions?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well yes, in short, on the basis of legitimate need and if someone needs it and they can demonstrate that then of course they can go on the DSP that is what it is there for. Many people are in legitimate need they will get access to the DSP. But you have got to do it through a fair dinkum government doctor. You have got to follow those rules and there has been a tightening of the eligibility arrangements over time and the bottom line is this – where people have ability to do more and work more then we want to encourage them to do that. That doesn’t matter whether you have a disability or it doesn’t matter if you are unemployed currently. We encourage you to work longer. Where people have the ability to continue to support themselves well we want to encourage that because that is the sort of country we are. We look after ourselves and we look after those in genuine need.
BYNER:
Scott, in terms of the pension. Now there’s been a lot of criticism that you have changed the way in which pensions are calculated but has there not been an anomalous advantage that occurred not through anybody’s intent but circumstance here?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the pension has gone up, despite what the South Australian Government says, the pension has gone up under the Abbott Government by $78 a fortnight for couples and just over $51 a fortnight for singles. So that’s a more than 6% increase, which is higher than the growth in wages over that time. The other thing we did was that we kept the carbon tax compensation and got rid of the carbon tax. So that has delivered a windfall of $14.10 a fortnight for single pensioners and $21.20 for couple pensioners. Now the South Australian Government’s running around frightening pensioners, just like Bill Shorten, that somehow their pension has been cut. It hasn’t been cut, it’s actually gone up and it’ll continue to go up every six months.
BYNER:
In our state the big issue has been this $190 council rebate and our government have gone out, that’s the State Government, and spent quite a bit of money on television with a couple of dear ladies discussing how awful it is that their pensions have been cut and their budgets or allowances have been cut – what’s your comment on that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it’s a cop out by the South Australian State Government. Every other State and Territory Government has maintained their commitments to those subsidies and they’ve funded them themselves. The South Australian Government, through their own mismanagement, hasn’t stepped up to the plate. So they’re the ones who’ve cut the funding to pensioners when it comes to those subsidies on rates. Every other State and Territory Government, because it’s State and Territory Governments that pay for the absolute lion’s share of those subsidies, they stepped up to the plate. In New South Wales and Queensland and other places they did it; in South Australia they left pensioners stranded.
BYNER:
I know it is not strictly your portfolio but you are a member of the Cabinet. There has been a lot of discussion on this programme and across the media, first of all about labelling laws that Barnaby Joyce tells us he has been able to get through Cabinet and I know there has been a lot of pushback from vested interest, you are smiling, so don’t you think that consumers have a right to know if something comes from China or wherever, we ought to know that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Of course and so does the Prime Minister and Barnaby and Ian MacFarlane and the whole team. What we have just got to be able to do is do it in a way that is practical, achievable, doesn’t put over compliance burdens on Australian businesses and increase costs. People do want to know where things come from. That is an important transparency issue for consumers and something we want to make sure can be delivered.
BYNER:
Barnaby said this morning to us that it has been agreed and gone through Cabinet. Is that your understanding?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is up to Barnaby to make those announcements. I am certainly not going to contradict him. I would have no cause to contradict him I assure you but Barnaby is all over this.
BYNER:
Scott Morrison is talking to us today and importantly he is talking to you. Alex of Birdwood meet Scott Morrison.
CALLER:
Good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Alex.
CALLER:
I have a question about migrants who came here in the 40s, 50s and 60s, worked very hard and then at retirement have decided they want to go and die in their country of origin and there are many that are getting paid their age pensions overseas. Now are you hopefully not going to be heartless and say that portability is going to be changed so as to force people back to Australia if they want to keep getting their pension? I have heard rumours about that so I want to ask you directly that you won’t do that.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well there is a portability arrangement that has been introduced for six months. People can go away for six months if they are on the age pension but for those who are already on the previous arrangements they have been grandfathered as I understand it. These sort of portability arrangements which apply in even more confined terms for say the DSP – that is a four week arrangement – so you can’t go on the DSP and then go and live in Bali or something like that. That was being rorted and that is why we introduced those measures and we have introduced a six month measure for the age pension but that has been grandfathered.
BYNER:
Alright thank you Alex. On the business of today for example – and again these are all speculative things but can we get a guarantee from you that any major change to these sorts of allowances and payments will actually be well canvassed in the community because there is a tendency for governments in general to announce things and then defend them and come up with a predisposal of a position and not really take much notice of what the public say.
MINISTER MORRISON:
We gave a commitment before the last election that there would be no changes to pensions and to superannuation during this terms of government. There have been no changes to pensions or superannuation in this term of government.
BYNER:
See even today in the press you’ve got speculation about if you’re over 60 and you’ve got tax freedom you’re not going to have it much longer.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well what we’ve got is a tax white paper which is out there which is going through the exact process you’ve just requested and that is to have an open discussion and conversation about the future of these arrangements and we want to hear what people think. The same is happening when it comes to the pension as well. That’s why I’m in an active discussion with crossbenchers and others about how we can make the pension sustainable. Leon, people leaving school today unless we can get a handle on the growth in outlays in the welfare sector there won’t be an age pension when they get to the age pension age. The safety net that we all take for granted today won’t be there for future generations. The Labor Opposition is saying that there’s no issue with this at all, but on the Intergenerational Report the difference between a sustainable system and the one that they’re proposing is just less than 1% of GDP. Now in today’s terms that’s over $14 billion. That would wipe out the Commonwealth contribution to the NDIS, the most important welfare reform in a generation. We think that’s important to fund and that’s why we’re trying to absorb it.
BYNER:
How is that going for South Australia? When will people with a disability and an unmet need get some degree of help?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well look I don’t want to raise expectations around this; this program will take many years to roll out and to be at full strength and I think it would be a good idea to get Mitch Fifield on your programme and he can take you through chapter and verse on all of these arrangements. There have been some bring forwards with the assistance of State Governments. We’ve just brought forward one of the trials in western Sydney the other week with the support of the New South Wales State Government to do that and we’re working with the States. This is a partnership and so it does require us both to be on the same page. I’ve got to say that while we may disagree on some other issues on the NDIS I think everyone’s working in good faith and to get it in place as soon as we possibly can.
BYNER:
Is there an awareness in your government, as a Cabinet Minister, and I’m not going to get you to breach confidences, but I think it’s a fair question, is there an awareness in Cabinet that South Australia is in a very challenged position because of the pull up and move out of Ford and indeed GMH and we still don’t know what the sub-contract is going to deliver. So there’s a lot of trepidation out there about jobs and this state of course gets nearly $1.30 per dollar for GST – what is the attitude of the Federal Government to South Australia generally?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I think you’ve just summarised it well and thanks to people like Matt Williams and Christopher Pyne and your good Senators and all of our Members here they have been absolute tireless campaigners for the causes affecting South Australia, whether it was on the most recent issues, on the submarines or more broadly on Christopher’s agenda on higher education reform. I mean South Australia can do very, very well in the international student industry. They’ve got a first class education system here in South Australia, particularly higher education and we want to be able to free that up so it can be even more competitive in the future.
BYNER:
Except, I know it’s not your portfolio but having raised it the university management now and chancellors have kind of said ‘well we want to go back to the drawing board now; we’re just not going to be part of what’s been happening. It’s too convoluted; let’s go back to the beginning’.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that’s not my understanding of it. The G8 remains firmly behind the Government’s reforms, as Christopher said this morning. It’s been rejected by the Labor Party and what we’re seeing from the Labor Party, whether it was in Queensland, New South Wales or here in South Australia it’s been an absolutely policy reactionary approach. There’s no vision, there’s no direction. I’m a New South Welshman, I’ve just come from a state where we had an election on the weekend, where we had a State Government take a strong policy to the election, which was about building more infrastructure in return for a hard policy reform. They were overwhelmingly supported. The New South Wales Labor Party absolutely rejected it, campaigned against it and now they want to kick out Martin Ferguson, one of Labor’s heroes. Martin Ferguson would know more about the Labor Party and the people who support the Labor Party than Bill Shorten ever would. The fact they are now on a witch-hunt for Martin Ferguson for just speaking his mind – Bill Kelty has come out and supported Martin Ferguson saying Labor Party members should be able to speak their mind on these issues, now Bill Shorten is on the warpath along with the NSW Sussex Street squads.
BYNER:
What is going to be the unpalatable policy that you are going to try and sell like Mike Baird did on poles and wires?
MINISTER MORRISON:
What Mike Baird did is he sold the benefits of the policy. What he sold was the benefits of infrastructure and that I think is the challenge of the government. The benefits of a balanced budget is a sustainable pension for future generations.
BYNER:
Yeah but it depends on how you do it though.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well of course it is and you have got to get the measures right and you have got to get the people with you and I think that is what we are doing. I will give you another example – we are working through issues of a small business package, of a jobs package which is critically important here in South Australia and child care reform. I have been all around the country engaging with families and child care providers and will be talking to Kate Ellis tomorrow to work through those changes to ensure everybody is on the same page. Where you can get agreement on reform then I think everybody benefits, but where people are going to be reactionaries on change when it is going to benefit people well you know there’s an appetite for that out there in the electorate but fortunately, at least in New South Wales, that was rejected on the weekend and people voted for change which was going to give them benefits.
BYNER:
What can the Federal Government offer South Australia to help enrich and facilitate growth in this state because what we desperately need right now is a bigger cake from which people can take a slice rather than argue about the cake that’s already there, which is diminishing.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well of course the South Australian economy needs to grow and that’s why it’s disappointing in some states where we’re seeing ambitious infrastructure programs which is supported by our asset recycling initiative where we come in on top of the investments made by State Governments in infrastructure, where they’re turning some assets into new assets, well that’s I think an excellent program for South Australia. We’re going to have a small business package. It is small business drives growth, particularly here in South Australia and we’re looking to do everything we can to support them through that package – you’ll see that come through the budget – and getting people in a position where they’re ready to work. It’s one thing to grow the economy, that’s what creates the jobs, but you’ve got to get them to the point, particularly young people, where they can walk into a job and be successful in a job.
BYNER:
There was a move recently, and I don’t know that you are going to stick with this, but when the last budget was announced and somewhat got very bad reaction one of the moves was that if you were a student you wouldn’t be able to get anything from Centrelink until you were about 24, 25 – are you going to change that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well we’re working through a whole range of measures at the moment with the Crossbench from last year’s budget. Good governments learn from their time in Government and there are some important lessons we’ve taken over the last 18 months. We are looking at all of these measures. Some of those measures fall in my domain, others with other Ministers and we’ll be working those issues through in the budget.
BYNER:
What are you looking for from Nick?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well at the moment Nick is I think quite a leader in the Senate. I think a lot of people look to Nick on the Crossbench because he has a very good reputation of calmly and rationally considering issues on their merits and looking at what the alternatives are. I’ve worked with him on other bills and I think what we need at the moment is some consensus that we need to get our welfare system sustainable for the future; we need to be able to absorb the NDIS. The NDIS will be at over 1% of GDP by the end of this decade. That is going to have a huge impact on the budget. So we do need to make changes in our system that can absorb something of that scale.
BYNER:
You do know of course that there have already been those who have said that there is going to be a bureaucracy out of this? You would surely want to avoid this won’t you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
We not only should avoid it, we are avoiding it. We’ve already been able to reduce down the size of the sort of bureaucratical army that wanted to be put in behind this by the previous government. I commend the previous government on initiating the NDIS, but it’s one thing to have an idea, it’s another thing to actually have to pay for it and implement it. That’s fallen to this government and that’s exactly what we’re doing with Senator Fifield leading that process as the Minister responsible. We want to see that be realised for people with disabilities across Australia, but we have got to understand it costs billions. The levy only counts for 40% of the Commonwealth’s contribution, so we’re going to have to absorb this into this welfare budget. For the Labor Party to say ‘well you can do all that and not make any changes’, well that’s head in the sand nonsense. They are just not being serious about the challenges that we face in this area.
BYNER:
Scott, thank you for coming in this morning, good luck with your meetings with Kate Ellis and also Nick Xenophon. You will keep us in the loop of any important changes won’t you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Of course we will.
BYNER:
One other point just quickly – I’ve been very critical of the job networks who unless you are at the very bottom end of those who haven’t worked for ages they’ll just say ‘there’s a computer, go and have a look for yourself’ and if some poor sod gets a job they’re chasing commissions.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well today the Prime Minister just as we were sitting here in the studio was announcing with Luke Hartsuyker the relevant Minister some changes to the job network and how the new contracts will be issued and some alterations there. I will let them speak to that. That information will be out there. But we are putting contracts in place for people to get people into work. That is what we are doing and as a government we like to hold people accountable for what we’re paying for them to do. The something for nothing bus used to run pretty frequently under the former government – that service is no longer running under the Abbott Government.
BYNER:
All right, thanks for joining us.