3AW Neil Mitchell
E&OE
NEIL MITCHELL:
Social Services Minister, Scott Morrison good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Neil.
MITCHELL:
All the polls today are indicating that the government is back in town. Have you turned the corner?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think we have had a good several months now and it has just been a good policy process. You work hard on the policy, you correct issues from the past and you communicate clearly about what you are trying to do and people I think are getting that message and that is encouraging and we will keep on doing it.
MITCHELL:
Well you have been the front man; your doing?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, it’s a team. I did the curtain raiser, Joe did the main event. That is how it was designed, that is how we were seeking to do it.
MITCHELL:
You have been doing a lot more than most in the past couple of months.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have because we have been explaining some big changes for the jobs for families’ package which is giving families more choice. We have had the pension changes which were also very significant and they required a lot of explanation and people have responded to those quite well. You need to articulate why you are making changes and that is what we have been doing.
MITCHELL:
So can you smell an early election?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I can’t, no I can’t, not at all because there is so much more work to be done. We – there is another budget to come after this because there is more work to be done on the fiscal job but equally this morning I was launching a families conference and the work we are doing there in addressing domestic violence and children at risk and we have got a lot of exciting programmes which we think can make a difference there.
MITCHELL:
Paid parental leave is one of the areas, if you would like to speak to Scott Morrison, questions about how it works, what it does – 96 900 693, 13 13 32. Anything else in the Social – well anything you would like to indeed, anything you would like to raise with him. Is a person double dipping on Paid Parental Leave as has been described? Are they rorting the system?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think the system itself is the problem, not the individuals. That is the point I was…
MITCHELL:
Have you accused them of rorting?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I haven’t actually Neil. My problem is with the system that was set up by Labor and the Unions that allows this to happen. What is happening right now is people can get full pay – Paid Parental Leave – so 14 weeks or 16 weeks and at exactly the same time be drawing down a Paid Parental Leave payment from the taxpayer. So they get a top up on top of their full wage. If you are in a small business and you are working there and you get just the basic scheme, you are getting the minimum wage but someone who is working for the public sector who may be getting paid exactly the same as you is getting paid two, three times what you are to spend the same time with your children. Now, that is a system which seems to be not fair to me and I think it needs to change.
MITCHELL:
You haven’t used the word rort, have you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have used the word rort in relation to the scheme itself not to those who are using it and I think there is a clear distinction. This system needs to change because I don’t think it is fair. What we have seen from the evaluation work done by the previous government which was carried on under our government is that the introduction of these arrangements which allows people to receive two payments at the same time is not leading to people spending longer beyond 18 weeks at home with their children. So people are taking the Paid Parental Leave Payment from their employer, usually the public sector, and then at the same time taking a top up payment. It is a bit like a baby bonus for those who have employer sponsored paid parental leave.
MITCHELL:
Bit like being on the dole and having a job.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Social Services Minister, Scott Morrison good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Neil.
MITCHELL:
All the polls today are indicating that the government is back in town. Have you turned the corner?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think we have had a good several months now and it has just been a good policy process. You work hard on the policy, you correct issues from the past and you communicate clearly about what you are trying to do and people I think are getting that message and that is encouraging and we will keep on doing it.
MITCHELL:
Well you have been the front man; your doing?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, it’s a team. I did the curtain raiser, Joe did the main event. That is how it was designed, that is how we were seeking to do it.
MITCHELL:
You have been doing a lot more than most in the past couple of months.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have because we have been explaining some big changes for the jobs for families’ package which is giving families more choice. We have had the pension changes which were also very significant and they required a lot of explanation and people have responded to those quite well. You need to articulate why you are making changes and that is what we have been doing.
MITCHELL:
So can you smell an early election?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I can’t, no I can’t, not at all because there is so much more work to be done. We – there is another budget to come after this because there is more work to be done on the fiscal job but equally this morning I was launching a families conference and the work we are doing there in addressing domestic violence and children at risk and we have got a lot of exciting programmes which we think can make a difference there.
MITCHELL:
Paid parental leave is one of the areas, if you would like to speak to Scott Morrison, questions about how it works, what it does – 96 900 693, 13 13 32. Anything else in the Social – well anything you would like to indeed, anything you would like to raise with him. Is a person double dipping on Paid Parental Leave as has been described? Are they rorting the system?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think the system itself is the problem, not the individuals. That is the point I was…
MITCHELL:
Have you accused them of rorting?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I haven’t actually Neil. My problem is with the system that was set up by Labor and the Unions that allows this to happen. What is happening right now is people can get full pay – Paid Parental Leave – so 14 weeks or 16 weeks and at exactly the same time be drawing down a Paid Parental Leave payment from the taxpayer. So they get a top up on top of their full wage. If you are in a small business and you are working there and you get just the basic scheme, you are getting the minimum wage but someone who is working for the public sector who may be getting paid exactly the same as you is getting paid two, three times what you are to spend the same time with your children. Now, that is a system which seems to be not fair to me and I think it needs to change.
MITCHELL:
You haven’t used the word rort, have you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have used the word rort in relation to the scheme itself not to those who are using it and I think there is a clear distinction. This system needs to change because I don’t think it is fair. What we have seen from the evaluation work done by the previous government which was carried on under our government is that the introduction of these arrangements which allows people to receive two payments at the same time is not leading to people spending longer beyond 18 weeks at home with their children. So people are taking the Paid Parental Leave Payment from their employer, usually the public sector, and then at the same time taking a top up payment. It is a bit like a baby bonus for those who have employer sponsored paid parental leave.
MITCHELL:
Bit like being on the dole and having a job.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I wouldn’t quite put it like that.
MITCHELL:
Well two of your Minister’s have been caught doing it.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I wouldn’t put it like that at all. As I said I have no issue with the people who are using the scheme as it is currently designed. What I have an issue with is the scheme as it is currently designed which discriminates against a small business owner – and we do know they – women running their own small business now are able to take time off when they have their kids because they get the taxpayer funded safety net of 18 weeks. They are taking that time but those who are getting both payments there is no evidence to suggest that they are spending any more time with their kids which is supposed to be what the payment is for. So it is basically a PPL loading, it is not allowing – it is not leading to people spending more time with their children.
MITCHELL:
Bit embarrassing wasn’t it, Mathias Cormann and Josh Frydenberg doing it because the language is pretty tough about rorts and frauds and things.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Again I was talking about the scheme and not about those who are using it and that is why we need to change the scheme.
MITCHELL:
Still a bit embarrassing.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Look, it was a difficult issue to manage last week but what we can’t do Neil is get distracted by what change is necessary. Now if anyone thinks it is fair for someone to pull down a payment from the taxpayer while at exactly the same time they are pulling down an even bigger payment from a big employer and it is not just the public service, it is all the big banks and Coles and Woollies and all the rest of it, if they think that people should be getting paid three times to spend time at home with their kids as someone in a small business or doesn’t have those schemes when they are probably getting paid exactly the same wage, well they can explain that, I don’t think it is fair.
MITCHELL:
Well obviously Josh Frydenberg and Mathias Cormann’s families thought it was fair.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, they accessed the scheme as it existed.
MITCHELL:
Yes but you are saying that they thought it was fair because they used it.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am talking about the scheme not the individuals and there is a big difference. People who use the scheme…
MITCHELL:
Yes but people – any individual who used the scheme when it was unfair didn’t think it was unfair.
MINISTER MORRISON:
People use the scheme that is there, Neil. They will pay the tax that you have to pay under the tax system. Kerry Packer used to say that.
MITCHELL:
Well he didn’t want to give you any money that is why.
MINISTER MORRISON:
And his famous appearance before that Committee which Peter Costello was at, I recall. But the issue here is what is a fair deal on Paid Parental Leave. Now if people were actually spending 36 weeks away with their kids because they got the extra 18 week payment from the taxpayer that would be different but that is not what is happening. They are taking the Paid Parental Leave which they are entitled to do from their employer but at the same time they are getting a top up of $11,500 that is more than twice what the old baby bonus used to be. That is not going to stay at home mums, that is not going to people who work for small businesses, that is not going to mums who run their own businesses they just get the $11,500, they don’t get the top up that is part of the Labor/Union deal that we saw with this scheme.
MITCHELL:
So double dipping is not fraud.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, of course not.
MITCHELL:
Joe Hockey said it was.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No…
MITCHELL:
With Laurie Oakes.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I don’t believe that is what he said and Joe has made his own explanations on that. What we are saying is the scheme allows this to happen now and I don’t think it should happen now and that is why I am seeking to change the scheme. Others might want to get distracted with the language and all this sort of stuff and they can and that prints papers and gets people talking in Canberra. What I know is if you are a mum running your own small business, you only get 18 weeks at the minimum wage and if you work for the public service you get that 18 weeks and on top of that you get full pay from your employer. Now if anyone thinks that is fair they can make that case to that mum running her own business.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I wonder if you wouldn’t mind putting the headphones on, we’ll take a quick call or two. Hello Dale. Go ahead Dale.
CALLER:
Morning guys. Scott, I work 20 hours a week in overtime and earn around $30,000 a year in overtime payments. However, under current legislation there is no employer requirement to pay superannuation on that amount of money. I’d like to know why? I mean it seems to me the lower paid workers that do most of superannuation they’re the ones who need it most in retirement.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well we do want to encourage everyone Dale to be saving for their retirement and particularly when you are drawing down on that when you are retired we don’t want to tax you like Chris Bowen does. Look we’ve got a Tax White Paper going on at the moment Dale and I think you’ve made some good points and we should be considering that through the Tax White Paper process.
MITCHELL:
You think you would consider super being paid on overtime?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Look I think that’s why we have a Tax White Paper process to consider lots of good ideas that come up from people in the community. What we want to do is to encourage people to save for their own retirement. That’s why we made changes in terms of how the pension works; those on high assets are getting less, those on low to modest assets are getting more because the pension is a welfare payment but superannuation is your own money. We don’t think we should be taxing people more on their own money in superannuation.
MITCHELL:
John, go ahead John.
CALLER:
Scott, John’s my name. My query is in relation to the pension card now with the generation that you’re hitting the majority of us and the majority of our working career (caller drops out)… Earning a hell of a lot more so why are you taking our pension card off us? We’ve worked for it, we deserve it, and you want to take part of our pension of us I don’t have a problem but leave our pension card alone.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well John you’ll continue to get the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card and that’s the guarantee we’ve given. That gives you all the same access to the pharmaceutical discounts…
CALLER:
Is that going to give us the same entitlements as what our pension card is?
MITCHELL:
On all the Commonwealth provided incentives, yes it does, all the pharmaceutical benefits, all the bulk billing on Medicare and all of that. The State Government will give you what the State Government gives you for the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card that’s a matter for the Andrews Government but you will get a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card.
MITCHELL:
Thank you John. I’m a little confused on just what is linked to other things getting through the Senate. How much of what you’re talking about here in your part of the Budget is actually linked to other activity in the Senate?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the four measures that were in last year’s Budget on Family Tax Benefits. There’s a freezing of the payments, not a reduction, but a freezing in the payments for Family Tax Benefit for two years. There is the freezing of the thresholds for three years, again no reduction in payment just freezing. There is a reduction in the Family Tax Benefit supplement for both A and B, which is an annual payment, a reduction of a couple of hundred bucks a year. Fourthly, there is the change which limited the Family Tax Benefit payment to families with children under six. What is interesting about that last one is you may remember that Labor changed the parenting payment for single – solo mums and for partnered mums as well actually. They said if you’ve got children under six you shouldn’t be on the parenting payment anymore – sorry when your children get over six you can go off the parenting payment and go on to Newstart which is a reduction in their income. It was fine for parenting payments for solo mums but apparently it’s not fine for Family Tax Benefits.
MITCHELL:
But, what has to get through the Senate before you’ll present the rest of the material from this Budget? Those four?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well those four measures I have just outlined I am negotiating with the senators on. We have had some productive discussions on that and we just have to patiently work through that process. The Jobs for Families Package….
MITCHELL:
So if you don’t get it through then this doesn’t happen?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well you have got to pay for what you are going to do.
MITCHELL:
If it can’t go through it doesn’t happen?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well this is the principle of paying for what you are investing in. Now Bill Shorten last week had a shoplifters Budget. He basically announced a whole bunch of things that he hadn’t paid for and we don’t do that with how we run our Budgets. We identify saves so we can take taxpayers money and invest it in what we think will get a better outcome for families, which is choice through child care.
MITCHELL:
Who’s in charge of those negotiations?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am doing that together with my colleagues in the Senate.
MITCHELL:
Christopher Pyne involved?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well he’s not the Minister for Social Services…
MITCHELL:
But he’s a fixer?
MINISTER MORRISON:
He is a fixer. I’m his apprentice fixer, I’m his apprentice fixer.
MITCHELL:
We’ll take another call. Claire go ahead please.
CALLER:
I just have a couple of questions for the Minister. You have spoken about women taking both the Paid Parental Leave scheme and also their employer contribution at the same time. Do you have any figures on that because it is certainly not my experience and it isn’t my friend’s experience? We have all stretched it out, even taken it at half pay, so we can have as long at home with our children as possible.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well for those taking schemes from their employer they can choose between dong it on half pay for longer or doing it on full pay for a shorter period of time. What I am referring to is the taxpayer funded scheme where the overwhelming majority of families are actually drawing that down for pretty much from day one after the birth of the child. So they might be taking down their employer provided scheme at half pay and at the same time taking down the taxpayer funded scheme at exactly the same time. So it’s not being added on to the end of when you have received your employer funded scheme it being taken as a bonus payment along the way. That’s why we are not seeing any statistical change in how long parents are staying home with their kids beyond 18 weeks. Where we have seen the change is for those who weren’t getting it before, particularly those working in small businesses and those who are running their own businesses.
MITCHELL:
Thank you Claire. Have you done all you need to do on the age of entitlement? Are you finished?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The receding line – the finishing line is ever receding as John Howard used to say on all reforms. We do need to continue to work away at this. Eight out of ten income taxpayers go to work every day to pay for our welfare system. We need to ensure that that money is spent properly and targeted in a way that helps families, older Australians and right across the board. There are a lot of initiatives in this Budget whether its helping young people get to the starting line of a job, stick in a job. There are investments there but to make those investments, whether it’s for families with child care or others, then you have to make the savings in this area. The Budget has to wash its face.
MITCHELL:
Some of those reports at the weekend seemed to be suggesting that some people on welfare were earning more than those in reasonably well paid jobs, is that right?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well there was one instance which was someone earning I think it was around $80,000 compared to a single mother – a solo mother who was looking after two kids and they were on the same income but the single mother was walking away with a higher disposable income well she’s looking after two kids. I don’t think Australians begrudge welfare that is well deserved, needed to help families in need and others. I don’t think any Australian has any issue with that but it’s got to be targeted, it’s got to be spent well. That’s why in this Budget we are trying to get better targeted investment in peoples futures and giving them more choices.
MITCHELL:
Do you support an inquiry into iron ore prices?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that’s not one for me and that’s still working its way through the system.
MITCHELL:
I read there’s a split in Cabinet.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well you read all sorts of things about what apparently happens in Cabinet.
MITCHELL:
Usually right.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, not actually. No, actually not. Sorry Neil to disappoint you.
MITCHELL:
So is this one right?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I don’t believe it is. I mean there hasn’t been a debate about this as yet. Look that will ensue and we always have I think very helpful debates because people come from different perspectives. That’s what you’d expect. I mean in the Labor Party they all come from one perspective; the Unions.
MITCHELL:
There is a new pressure or a new – yeah new pressure beginning underway to try to reopen the euthanasia issue. Do you support euthanasia strictly controlled, legally?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
MITCHELL:
Why?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Because I believe in the sanctity of human life.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for coming in.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks a lot Neil.