2GB Ray Hadley
E&OE
RAY HADLEY:
Minister, Good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Ray.
HADLEY:
Since you took over this Ministry, this portfolio, you have spoken about the need to crack down on welfare rorts. Yesterday, it was revealed a senior Australian Federal Police officer will be appointed to coordinate this crackdown – the welfare fraud taskforce will focus on recovering money from people who are have underestimated their income or lied while receiving payments including Newstart, Youth Allowance, Disability Support and Age Pension. How will they do that exactly?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well what we found in my previous portfolio is when you bring a law enforcement focus to these sorts of issues you get a lot of clarity; that is what police are good at. We have great people working in Human Services working on these issues for many years but I think what this does is give a real sort of operational focus to how you go about finding people who are doing this and then making sure that you are stamping out the rorts. This is important because eight out of ten income taxpayers go to work every day and they expect – to pay for our welfare bill, that’s what it takes, and they expect the Government to make sure the system has integrity so that’s what this officer will do as part of a team of people working and not just within the Department of Human Services but reaching out into other agencies and you would have noticed the other announcement which was flagged today by Minister Payne and Minister Dutton and we will have Immigration and Human Services working together to make sure that those people who are claiming single benefits when they actually have partners, are no longer able to do that and we track them down through data matching.
HADLEY:
It was mentioned yesterday in the report you will target high risk geographic hot spots, where are those hot spots?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I am not about to tip that off Ray but what we do know is that you do see patterns. When you have got the ability to do that through your data analysis and so on you do get a sense of where things are going on and you pick up your intelligence and you act on it. 131 524 is the fraud tip off line and we are always keen for people in the community to help us out with that. Someone always knows when they know someone in the community who is having a loan of the system and it is important that they pass that on to us. Equally if people need to update their own arrangement and their own situations then it is important that they do that, now you can do that on the my.gov.au website but you can also do it by ringing 136 240.
HADLEY:
Now I would imagine, or I’ll have a guess, that the high risk geographic hot spots are those areas where more people receive benefits than other areas because therefore there is a high percentage of them that are abusing the benefits. In other words if 10 per cent of the population in one area get benefits and in another area 48 per cent of them, I’m tipping the place with 48 per cent is the place where abuse is happening.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well you go fishing where the fish are Ray and that’s what we will be doing.
HADLEY:
Speaking of rorts, and you mentioned this, the Daily Telegraph has the details of $132 million marriage welfare rort. Now there is a court case unrelated to this in Brisbane at the moment about arranged marriages and young women being paid for these marriages. But apparently fake couples are marrying to gain Australian visas then they claim separate welfare benefits. Now it is largely an immigration rort but what do you know about it given the drain on Centrelink?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well what we are particularly cracking down on here are those who are Australian citizens and Australian residents who are actually in relationships with people they are looking to sponsor for permanent visas. So they are actually in a relationship and they are not declaring that – that is what people have to do. Now legitimately from time to time people don’t update their arrangements and they know that if they don’t do that – it is up to them to do that not for the Government to come and find you. If you don’t update your arrangements then you can face penalties and other things down the track when you pay the money back. So I would implore all Australians who are receiving benefits to keep their details up to date because if you don’t, and it is your responsibility, then there are penalties that do apply.
HADLEY:
There was another one recently, I think the Tele and the Courier Mail reported, cruise passengers have come forward saying they have been cut off from welfare after going on a cruise. It appears that while Immigration officials were processing the return of the cruise ships there was a glitch in getting their information back to Centrelink. Has that been rectified?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the portability conditions on people’s benefits for example on the DSP is you go away for more than four weeks then your DSP cuts off. Now if you come back within 13 weeks then it starts again. People who go to work every day they don’t get 13 weeks holiday a year. They don’t get six weeks holiday a year. The DSP is an income support payment it is not holiday pay.
HADLEY:
Yes, but these people had returned within the required time according to the report in the Telegraph.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well in instances where there are glitches Ray that needs to be rectified and those things will get sorted out.
HADLEY:
So you’re aware of the glitch?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I’m not aware of that case specifically Ray but Human Services will be and Marise Payne will be. Those sorts of things will get sorted out. But the principle is important that if you are on a Disability Support Pension then it is not holiday pay. It is there because you have a disability and you need support. Those payments are typically paid to people who are of working age.
HADLEY:
Now, this story that Samantha Maiden wrote in the Sunday Telegraph, ‘Australian Labor Party Call for the Aussie Jihadist to be Jailed not Deported.’ Labor has questioned plans to revoke the citizenship of dual national terrorists arguing Australia would be safer if jihadists were jailed. I don’t think they will be because there is evidence across jails, particularly in NSW, of those of the Islamic faith going to inmates who are vulnerable, gullible and plain stupid and enlisting them into their deadly deeds. Why can’t we get Bill Shorten to actually agree to a really good idea by the Australian Government?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Because he is soft on these issues Ray, that’s the bottom line. They are double minded on all of these things. This first came up when I was Immigration Minister and we began the work on what is now being floated, there may be announcements later this week more formally on this issue, but the problem is if you are a citizen you have a legal right to re-enter the country even if you don’t have a passport. The issue here is what they have been up to and frankly you don’t want them coming back in these circumstances. Once they get over there Ray they change; they change radically. The idea that they can someone rehabilitate on their return I think is pretty farfetched so you need to wherever you can prevent them from coming back and if they do come back then you lock them up.
HADLEY:
Daryl has just phoned to say that he used to work for Centrelink. He is suggesting we should link study benefits to school attendance generally. Is it not already?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it is in theory.
HADLEY:
What about in practice?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well in practice you need to enforce that, you need to implement it, that’s what the requirement is, that is what you are supposed to be doing. If people are found not to be doing that then obviously they are in breach of how they are receiving their entitlements. That is why Ray we have put a lot more resources, in this Budget, into enforcement and compliance in the welfare system. That is the tougher cop on the welfare beat that we promised.
HADLEY:
I talk to mates and they joke – I say “where’s your mum and dad?” They say “they have gone on a world cruise they are spending my inheritance.” We laugh about it and most people I know male or female want mum and dad to spend as much in retirement and have a really good time.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes.
HADLEY:
Today you have urged retirees not to hoard their super to pass on the savings to children. You say the purpose of providing tax incentives to encourage people to build up their super is so they can draw it down in their retirement, not use it as a nest egg for the next generation.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that is right because the tax incentives that are given for superannuation – which we strongly support and we don’t want to take away – the Labor Party wants to take those away. What we want to do is encourage people to save for their retirement but then when you are in retirement that is what you draw on, not the pension. The whole point of putting those incentives in place is so that people don’t have to draw down on a pension. We know particularly in the last five years in which people are drawing a pension almost two thirds of them have the same level of assets or are increasing their levels of assets. So it is not designed for people to take it with them or hand on. It is there to ensure that they can have a good retirement, a good standard of living. So the changes we are making to the pension – first of all I should stress that anyone affected by the changes who may no longer get a part pension will get the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, so that will give them the same concessions on pharmaceuticals, bulk billing and all of those things; that won’t change. But for those on low levels of assets, 170,000 people will get a higher pension and those on much higher levels of assets, some four times what the average pensioner has who has superannuation, well we are asking them to draw down on the superannuation that they saved for and got the tax incentives for to ensure that they could have that quality of life in retirement.
HADLEY:
I note that the front page of Fairfax today has found the analysis from the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling has shown that you are not looking after the lowest income earners. In fact they say families with children on the lowest income will bear the brunt of the Federal Government’s Budget cuts while high income families will actually see their disposable income increase. Who is the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it is a modelling outfit that particularly the Labor Party likes to use and ACOSS and some others…
HADLEY:
Do they have their basis in the Labor Party is it – are they sympathetic to the cause?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I wouldn’t suggest that but they get a fair bit of work from them. I am not having a crack at them. I would simply say…
HADLEY:
Well he who pays the piper calls the tune.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well what their analysis doesn’t do is understand this fundamental proposition – the best form of welfare is a job, not something you get from Centrelink. What the analysis doesn’t take into account is what we have put into small business, which will create jobs and help people get into jobs, what we are doing for young people who choose – who we want them to choose to get out there and get in a job, it doesn’t take that into account. On child care for example the $3.5 billion which is going to low and middle income earners to help them work more, what it doesn’t take into account is them earning more through their own efforts to get themselves off welfare. Under us we think that more welfare and higher taxes is not the way forward. What Bill Shorten is saying is he wants a bus to run from the school gate to Centrelink from the moment someone leaves school and that is not what we think is the right thing.
HADLEY:
Ok, two other matters. A lot of talk about gay marriage after the Irish decision, 1.9 million people 1.2 million said yes gay marriage is acceptable. More Australian politicians say they are now supporting gay marriage which of course doesn’t require referendum here, where do you think we are headed with this one?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It will be considered by the Parliament I assume at some point. My position has never changed on this and it isn’t going to. That is a matter of conscience for me and I respect the conscience of other Members. But it is a change to the Marriage Act it is not a change to the Constitution which is the point the Prime Minister was making. So that is not the mechanism to change this in this country. But look everyone in Australia has a view about this and that is fair enough and I think we should all treat each other with respect about the different views that we have. I have my view, I don’t support the change, I don’t go around ramming that down others’ throats but that is my view and I intend to stick to it.
HADLEY:
When did Parliament last deal with this matter?
MINISTER MORRISON:
There were some Private Members Bills, if I recall, in the last Parliament from the Greens, I could stand corrected on that. It is not an issue I follow closely because frankly I am more interested in getting Australians into jobs, I was interested in stopping the boats, and doing all those sorts of things which the Australian people elected us to do and frankly that is what we are focussed on.
HADLEY:
Now do you think there is any substance to the story today in News Limited that Kevin Rudd has been slammed by a Chinese academic who says the former PM has overstated his expertise in China because he speaks Mandarin?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I don’t know Ray.
HADLEY:
It is handy when you are ordering in Hong Kong or Beijing but I would imagine that in most other instances you know it is – most people I ran into in Beijing when I was there for the Olympics spoke English actually.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I remember what Kevin had to say about the Chinese some years ago at the Climate Change conference in Copenhagen, maybe they are remembering that.
HADLEY:
Just remind us what he said.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I don’t think I will it is a family programme. Mind you I think there are a few tradies out there who know exactly what I mean.
HADLEY:
Alright we will talk next week. Thanks very much.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks a lot Ray. Good to be with you.