Doorstop interview, Canberra

E&OE

JOURNALIST:

Do you support stripping sole nationals of their citizenship?

MINISTER MORRISON:

I support the dual citizenship measures that the Cabinet has endorsed and again before the Parliament. There is a discussion paper that is canvassing a range of other options and I think it is important to have those discussions around the other options. What is important here is that we take every possible step that we can to ensure that those who have been ultra-radicalised by going to fight with terrorists that we seek to prevent them coming back into the country and bringing their hate here. We need to look at all the measures and I think the discussion paper that is being led for debate out there by Senator Fierravanti-Wells my Parliamentary Secretary and also Philip Ruddock I think that is the sort of discussion we have to have. Those measures include the suspension of certain rights of citizenship. That doesn’t mean you are abolishing someone’s citizenship or rendering someone stateless, what it means is that in the same way citizens could have their rights of citizenship temporarily suspended, particular rights such as the right to vote if you are in prison or something like that, then that provides other options to consider. I think it is positive, constructive debate. I think it is the right thing to do, the Prime Minister and the Immigration Minister ensured that we are having this debate. Because at the end of the day we are not talking about people going for a holiday overseas who happen to have dual citizenship with the UK or something like that, we are talking about people who may have UK citizenship as well and they may have other forms of citizenship going to fight with terrorists. I think that really needs to be the context for these discussions.

JOURNALIST:

Can you just sorry, as an example of stripping them – someone who remains a citizenship, a sole citizen but you deny them, remove their rights, would it be someone who is overseas would that then prevent them coming back to Australia?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Yes it would. One of the rights of citizenship is to enter and remain in Australia and that is a right, that if the legislation were changed, could be suspended and that type of outcome is one that is referred to in the discussion paper. I think it is worthy of discussion. It hasn’t been put forward for legislation. The other measures which have excited many haven’t been put forward for legislation and were never intended to be put forward for legislation. They were intended to be put forward for discussion.

JOURNALIST:

And the flip side of that, what if someone, getting hypothetical, if the person was in Australia?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Well if they are in Australia then suspending their right to enter and remain would be…

JOURNALIST:

No, no but what sort of rights would you take off them?

MINISTER MORRISON:

I am not addressing that situation. The key issue here is preventing people returning to Australia who can present a very real and direct threat to our national security. I think you need to look at all the options that you have. If somebody is already here then they are already here and we will have to use the processes that are available here in terms of prosecutions and other things to address the risk that may present at that level.

JOURNALIST:

Just clarifying, the case of citizenship or sole citizens, we are talking about people who are already abroad, we are not talking about applying it to people in the country as such?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Well that would be the point.

JOURNALIST:

Minister just to clarify; is this a deterrence or a security measure in the sense of keeping Australians secure when these people return?

MINISTER MORRISON:

The experience after Afghanistan was that those who had been involved in the fighting there, for terrorists when they came to Australia and returned to Australia they had a high level of engagement in terrorist activity over a decade. I think that should be a very sobering thought for us to reflect on as we consider these very weighty issues. We all understand that these are very weighty and serious issues but we are talking about pretty weighty matters from a national security point of view.

JOURNALIST:

What do we currently do now to address that, what is the worry if you like?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Cancelling someone’s passport does not prevent them from returning to Australia because as a citizen you have a right to enter and remain in Australia. If you were to suspend that right temporarily then that would prevent that person being able to return to Australia. I think that is what is concerning Australians right across the country. They know what is going on over there and that is why the Australian Government is doing everything we can to prevent people going over there in the first place. Some people are saying ‘well you shouldn’t stop them from doing that let them go’. We are doing a lot of work to prevent people from going over there and getting involved in this fight. Once you join that fight, you have declared your hand pretty firmly. Whether that decision was na?ve or intentional or whatever it happened to be, once they are there it all changes. They get radicalised to a point which presents a very real risk to this country. What we are simply saying is you have got to consider every option, every option, which prevents them from being able to re-enter Australia and bring their hate and bring their fear to this country.

JOURNALIST:

The issue of sole nationals though does appear to be causing some splits within the government. Where do you stand on that issue?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Well I support the discussion paper being out there. I support the measures on dual citizenship; I was a keen advocate for them when I was the Minister for Immigration.

JOURNALIST:

But on sole Australians?

MINISTER MORRISON:

This is a discussion that is unfolding. I have outlined to you a piece in the discussion paper which I think proposes a way forward. What matters here is that we are doing something to prevent people being able to return to Australia in these situations. That is the practical outcome. The lawyers can argue about whatever they want to argue about. What I am interested in doing and I know what the Prime Minister is interested in doing and the Minister for Immigration is interested in doing, is trying to protect Australia from people who have been extremely radicalised through their involvement overseas from being able to bring that back here. That is the outcome; the outcome is what matters here not the semantics.

JOURNALIST:

Does this discussion run the risk of inflaming hatred, if you like, against the Islamic community of Australia?

MINISTER MORRISON:

No I don’t believe it does because as you would know I have a high level of engagement with the Islamic community, particularly in Sydney. I am one of those people who have sat in the home of those four young men who went to Syria and I have spoken to their parents. I have seen their emotion and their upset and that is why I think it is important to try and stop these young men, those who have been [inaudible] upon by these terrorists. But once you go, once you go then the national interest is what really has to, I think in my view, dictate where we head on this debate.

JOURNALIST:

Minister, you said this morning on the Ray Hadley show that there was a robust Cabinet discussion last week.

MINISTER MORRISON:

You’d hope so.

JOURNALIST:

Were Cabinet Ministers taken by surprise by what was put to them?

MINISTER MORRISON:

I am not going to join in on the commentary of what takes place in Cabinet other than simply to say that you would hope that on a topic as serious as this that Cabinet Ministers would have an informed and highly active involvement in this discussion. It should be passionate, it deals with some of the most important issues that there are to debate in this country, national security and the rights of citizens. They are important issues and I am pleased to be part of a Cabinet that does have robust and frank debates about this and long may that continue.

JOURNALIST:

One source in Simon Benson’s story this morning said that the division on this shore up Tony Abbott’s leadership to the next election, does it?

MINISTER MORRISON:

I don’t think it was ever in question.

JOURNALIST:

Just on sole citizenship, does Australia have a duty to protect the rest of the world from some of these maniacs like Sharrouf goes overseas, he is causing enormous damage, and heartache, and violence to other nations. By cutting someone like that free aren’t we just abrogating responsibility for one of our own maniacs and inflicting them on the rest of the world? Do we have a responsibility to try and get this clown back and put him in the clink?

MINISTER MORRISON:

Well I think these are the things on balance you have to weigh up in the course of this discussion and that is why it is an important discussion to have. That is what will be weighed up. At the same time Australia’s national security – that is our paramount responsibility as a Cabinet, as a Government, as a Parliament. That is what is focussing my mind and always has.

Thank you.