ABC 7.30
E&OE
LEIGH SALES:
With me now live from Canberra is the Social Services Minister, Scott Morrison. Thank you for your time.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Good to be with you.
SALES:
What have you had to promise the Greens in return for their support of your pension plan?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, what we’ve done is we’ve extended the timeframe for people to make submissions to the Tax White Paper process and we’ve also agreed to a stakeholder engagement process to support that. The Tax White Paper already has within its scope the ability to deal with the matters relating to retirement incomes and this gives a further opportunity for that to take place. But the Government has made it crystal clear that our policy, when it relates to superannuation and particularly taxation and the flexibility of people’s arrangements, is unchanged. We won’t be making any changes adverse to those arrangements in this term and we have no plans to do that beyond the next election.
SALES:
And those processes that you’ve outlined the Tax White Paper process and the stakeholder process what’s the timeframe on that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, it’s another six weeks from now, so it’s about July 24 people will be able to get their submissions into that process and…
SALES:
So does that mean you have to wait to put the legislation up until that process is completed?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Oh, no. No, the agreement to have these additional processes in the White Paper will mean that this bill, once it goes through the House over the course of this week, will be able to be considered in the Senate next week. And that will enable what is a very – the single largest saving measure in this budget, $2.4 billion, to be able to go through the Parliament, which I think is very important for what is, I think, this continuing build of momentum for the ‘have a go’ budget. I mean, it has the support.
SALES:
How do you incorporate, though, any of the material that might come up in those processes if the Bill has already gone through?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, the bill only deals with the pension assets test change. The change in the taper rate, which goes back to – we reverse some changes that were done in 2007. It increases the assets-free area, which means 170,000 pensioners will get an increase in their pension of around $30 a fortnight; some 50,000 new full pensioners. More than 90 per cent of pensioners will either be better off under this arrangement or won’t have any changes to their pension. So I think what we saw from Labor today was in response to good policy they opted for politics and Richard Di Natale and the Greens went for good policy.
SALES:
Well, Labor did point out that it has modelling showing that the pension cuts would affect half of all workers due to retire in the next decade. Is it a fair point that they’re making: that it’s unreasonable to make reforms that affect so many people fairly close to their retirement?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think it’s unfair that we have a system that basically gives a part pension to people who have more than $1 million in assets in addition to their family home and that’s what has changed as a result of this. It’s a fairer pension; it’s a more sustainable pension. It delivers important savings to the Budget. But importantly, it improves the pension for those on low and modest assets. Now, we were hoping that the Labor Party might actually see the good sense of this policy but I know they’ve been quite riven about this and it seems, at the end of the day, Bill Shorten once again goes for the politics rather than the policy.
SALES:
You would have heard his remarks before that Tony Abbott is going after your pension, which is clearly going to be the line they’re going to use. That could be very damaging to you, could it not?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, it’s cheap sloganeering from Bill Shorten, who hasn’t got much left, frankly, after his performance on so many issues lately. But I’ll leave that – that’s his problem. And the issue now is the matter will be favourably considered by the Senate. If Bill Shorten wants to reverse that change, the cost is $2.4 billion.
SALES:
If we can move to the issue of boat turn-backs, given you were Immigration Minister during a substantial period: did you ever seek advice regarding whether paying people smugglers, either for intelligence or to turn back boats, was legal?
MINISTER MORRISON:
All of the matters that were dealt with while I was Immigration Minister and all of the officers that formed part of Operation Sovereign Borders always acted lawfully. That was always our clear objective and it was something that General Campbell and I spoke of regularly and the lawful element of our undertakings was very important to everyone involved.
SALES:
So can I assume, then, from your answer that you did seek legal advice about every initiative that you were undertaking?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, you can assume that I said that everything that we have done, we have done in a lawful manner and those involved in…
SALES:
But how do you know if it was lawful?
MINISTER MORRISON:
…those, those who were operating as officials in that process have also conducted themselves lawfully. That’s what I’ve said.
SALES:
Was the full suite of options available to either military or intelligence officers in the field something that was approved by the minister? Or, for example was ASIS left to its own discretion?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, again, I’m not about to go into those things, Leigh. I think that goes well beyond the scope of what I think is appropriate for me to respond to as a Minister at the time. But there are different changes of accountability for different Ministers in relation to particular agencies. Those agencies that were part of Operation Sovereign Borders and that reported through our operational chain of command to General Campbell and to myself, as I said, they are all acting lawfully.
SALES:
Is it not, though, a reasonable question for me to ask you as Immigration Minister, were you aware of the full range of options that were available for use in the field by military or intelligence officers acting under the banner of Operation Sovereign Borders?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, as the Minister responsible for Operation Sovereign Borders and very pleased with the outcomes that were able to be achieved, the boats were stopped as a result of Operation Sovereign Borders and of course…
SALES:
Were you aware of everything that was done in the name of that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Of course I was very familiar with the operations of that programme and as were the officials who were directly involved. It was a very successful operation, one that was ridiculed in the media by our opponents, by academics, by the Opposition. People said and were proved wrong by the High Court that these things were not legal and so I’m very happy with the result, Leigh.
SALES:
Do you consider that Indonesia has been a sound partner in Operation Sovereign Borders?
MINISTER MORRISON:
We have worked with closely with Indonesia and Malaysia. We’ve worked with countries all through the region. There were obvious difficulties in relation to working with Indonesia at various times when I was minister, because of the issues that go back to the time of the Rudd government that were the subject of those allegations at the time and the Snowden issues. So that was a difficult period of time. But even through that, there were very good relationships, particularly through the military, diplomatic channels that ensured, I think, a constancy in our relationship.
SALES:
Your friends and even your enemies concede that you are one of the Government’s top performers. Wouldn’t you do a better job than Joe Hockey of pushing through the remaining Budget initiatives?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, I’m responsible for the matters that relate to social services and they’re the bigger-ticket items when it comes to savings. I’m still working through issues of family tax benefits. But we’re a team, Leigh. The Treasurer and I, the Finance Minister, Mathias Cormann, the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and, of course the Assistant Treasurer we form the ERC and we work together as a team and we’ve framed this Budget together.
SALES:
Would you be more effective as the front man?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I don’t believe so. I’m effective in the role that I’ve been given by the Prime Minister, as is the Treasurer in the role that he has been given by the Prime Minister.
SALES:
Would you be interested in the Treasury portfolio one day?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
SALES:
Holding out for the leadership?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
SALES:
Just finally, Cabinet met last night. How can you now have any sort of full and frank discussion, as any good Cabinet needs, given that one of your number is a leaker?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well, look, I don’t necessarily accept all of that, Leigh. I mean, I’ve seen all the reports and all the rest of it. But what I think today shows that the Government is getting on with the job of government. What we have done today, on top of the small business changes that have now passed through the Senate we’ve also made this significant progress tonight in relation to the biggest saving measure in the Budget. It shows that the Government is getting on with the job. The Prime Minister is leading a successful Government.
SALES:
Scott Morrison, thank you very much for joining us.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks very much, Leigh.