ABC News Chris Uhlmann
CHRIS UHLMANN:
Scott Morrison welcome.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks Chris good to be here.
UHLMANN:
Now taxpayers are funding around about 240 million welfare payments a year but that does cover an enormous amount of ground doesn’t it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it does literally from child care all the way through to aged care. It is an enormous spend it is more than a third of the Budget it is over $150 billion in this year’s Budget and that requires eight out of ten income taxpayers to pay what they pay every year to fund that bill. It keeps getting bigger – while we are having success in terms of levelling off issues like Family Tax Benefit and the DSP and we have had a lot of success there with the flow of people into the system there is still an enormous number of people in the system. We have got to get on top of those increases in costs.
UHLMANN:
What you have proven though is making changes is hard and will be resisted at every turn. You try to change the pensions one way and couldn’t do it; you had to go another way.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it is very difficult to change a system as large as this and what we have to change is sort of the culture that sits behind the system. I mean the welfare system should be focused on need not entitlement and making that adjustment is a difficult process but it is one we are very committed to because if you want to do more for those who need it most – those on the lowest level of assets in the pension for example then that requires changes at the higher end. Same for Newstart I mean if you really want to help people on what has been a fairly basic payment for a long time then you have to have changes elsewhere in the system. The argument of some is that you just keep whacking taxes up well that is not going to help grow the economy and get people off Newstart and into jobs.
UHLMANN:
You obviously believe that there are people in the system who shouldn’t be there. Have you identified who they are and how many there are?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well we are working that through the flow at the moment people into the system so the change we made for example on DSP to require…
UHLMANN:
That’s Disability Support Pension?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes Disability Support Pension, to go to a Government doctor rather than just any doctor is already having quite a positive impact in terms of limiting the number of people coming onto those payments. And that will level off as a percentage of GDP over a time which is something we welcome to get that under control. But you have to make longer term changes to the benefits system and that’s what Patrick McClure said earlier in the year and we are following through on that. The Seniors Supplement was another change in the changes made in that last week of Parliament that is one more supplement that is no longer there and look it is a big unwieldy system.
UHLMANN:
Do you think a lot of people are rorting the system or the system is just too broadly defined?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I think both are true in terms of the level of rorting well you will find that in any system the Government runs – the tax system, the immigration system, the welfare system. It is not half of the payments or anything remotely approaching that level. It is an element of the system and that is why we put $200 million in the last Budget to improve compliance procedures in the Department of Human Services and Social Services. That will deliver more than $1 billion over the Budget and forward estimates in savings for the Government. So a welfare cop on the beat you need.
UHLMANN:
$1 billion is a round about what it is going to take to change your computer system isn’t it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
At least that and that will be done over about seven years. I mean this thing hasn’t been fixed for 30 years basically and it is imperative that we have a system that focuses more on the recipient rather than the fleet of payments that exist. There are manual processes currently involved and the opportunities to data match and do things of that nature to crack down on potential fraud and non-compliance – all of that can only really be achieved with a massive overhaul of the ICT system.
UHLMANN:
On top of what you have got now you are going to be implementing the National Disability Insurance Scheme, have you really even got a handle on how much that is going to cost now and how you are going to fund it? Because it is only part funded by the lift in Medicare levy isn’t it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the new expenditure by the Commonwealth as a result of this scheme only 40 per cent of that is funded by the levy. So that means more than $5 billion every year is currently not funded. That $5 billion – so you get to the 2019/20 Budget that’s $20 billion plus over the budget and forward estimates which has to be accommodated within the social services portfolio. That is why restructuring the system, achieving savings, getting it to focus on those who most need it rather than those who just feel they are entitled to it is one of the big changes we have to make. Otherwise you either have to increase the levy or taxes more broadly which is not something we want to do or you need to just increase the debt which is also something we don’t want to do.
UHLMANN:
Can I take you a previous portfolio you had of Immigration Minister and Border Protection, we have seen now a call from the family of Khaled Sharrouf to bring the children home from Syria, they are in Al Raqqah in Syria. So Karen Nettleton’s call on behalf of her daughter – is there any way that the Australian Government can help?
MINISTER MORRISON:
This is a dangerous place and what we tried to do was prevent families and others going there in the first place. But once people find themselves in these places where they have placed themselves I mean it is very difficult. The question has to be asked are we going to put Australian Federal Police or Australian military personnel or others in harm’s way in order to secure an extraction of people who have placed themselves in this situation. Now it is I think terribly, terribly troubling to have children in the middle of this but this is how bizarre and just how frankly sick this has become that children would have been willingly placed in this environment. Now I feel for the family members of those children back here in Australia, I do, but this is a diabolical situation and one that that family – Khaled Sharrouf and his wife have placed those children in.
UHLMANN:
There are places in the world that are beyond the reach of the Australian Government; even it had the best will in the world.
MINISTER MORRISON:
And I think you have just nominated one pretty clearly. I mean this is a very dangerous place and it is not the role of the Australian Government to go and do search and reconnaissance and retrieval operations for people who have placed themselves in this situation.
UHLMANN:
Now Joel Fitzgibbon yesterday was talking about turning back the boats being part of Labor’s policy or he hoped that it might be. He also said that this Government wants a khaki election that you actually want a fight on national security, it looks that way doesn’t it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, look I thought Joel’s comments on the weekend were troubling on a whole bunch of levels. A – it further highlighted the division in the Labor Party over border protection and frankly it doesn’t matter what they say at their national convention now they have shown very clearly that they are all divided on this issue, they can’t make their mind up so whatever they say the people smugglers know that they are a light touch – regardless of what they say. On the issue of national security I think Joel has largely politicised it in framing it in that way. I mean is he suggesting the situation we are facing is not real? Of course he is not, he knows it is real and I wouldn’t suggest he didn’t. This is just the reality of the situation we are in. Now I am not surprised that the Australian people would gain greater confidence out of the approach that this Government has taken on national security matters. We are of one view on them, we show a lot of conviction on it, a lot of resolution, and we work wherever possible across the Parliament and in a bipartisan way. Now that is a reason I think to have attracted confidence from the Australian people.
UHLMANN:
Isn’t the best thing though that the national – that the two major parties in this country are united and that the Government not try and divide them?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I don’t think we are.
UHLMANN:
You aren’t rolling out the red carpet.
MINISTER MORRISON:
We are trying to – but this was in relation to the Opposition frankly walking away and being of mixed minds on a fairly serious national security issue. Now we can’t help the Opposition’s skirmishes inside their own party on these issues that’s a matter for them to manage. For the Government it is very clear we will work with the Opposition wherever possible.
UHLMANN:
Alright one last issue on the ABC and I don’t really want to dwell on this. The Government is clearly annoyed at Q&A, isn’t it a more profound issue the Government has a deep disregard for the ABC and we are seeing that on display?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I reject that. I mean for the ABC the ball is now in their court. They have a review, an external review going on with the ABC Q&A programme in terms of what happened and I thought Malcolm absolutely nailed it on the weekend. Sometimes I just don’t think the ABC gets it. On this occasion they seemed to have missed it but they have an opportunity now in how they respond to the report that comes – there have been other issues that I referred to last week. There were issues of poor taste with The Chaser, which were dealt with by the ABC with very strong disciplinary action for some of those individuals involved. Now how the ABC responds to this issue I think will be a matter for the public to judge. I think the ABC’s reputation is very much on the line in the response they make.
UHLMANN:
Scott Morrison thank you.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks very much.