3AW Neil Mitchell
E&OE
NEIL MITCHELL:
Scott Morrison good morning.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Good morning Neil, great to be in Melbourne again.
MITCHELL:
Well thank you for coming, where is Ulaanbaatar?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I couldn’t tell you.
MITCHELL:
We are going – neither could I!
MINISTER MORRISON:
I couldn’t tell you.
MITCHELL:
But we are going to set up a diplomatic office there at vast expense. Why do we do this? The point I am getting at is spending, we talk a lot about tax – Ulaan, I don’t even know if I am pronouncing it properly, Ulaanbaatar is actually in Mongolia. I don’t know that we need diplomatic representation in Mongolia but we are opening up a whole lot of these new offices. The issue is spending; we are talking about raising more tax but not cutting spending. Is there not the political will to cut spending? After the treatment that your first Budget got is there not the political bravery to cut spending?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I think since we have last been here or I think it happened soon after or about the same time, we have made changes to the pension which has seen the growth in the pension over the last ten years is around five per cent real cut to about two and half per cent real over the next ten years. That was a significant change, it had to be argued for, it had to be framed, it had to be explained and it had to be passed through the Senate. All of that happened so the government is continuing to pursue a range of reforms in that area, in the welfare system and more broadly. We had some $14 billion worth of measures passed through the Senate in that last fortnight of that sitting period so the government is getting on with that job.
MITCHELL:
Do you think the will is there to do it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I do, I mean…
MITCHELL:
The public will cop…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Trade agreements, Northern Australia, all of these things, the agricultural white paper – there has been a large amount of reform that has been taking place and new initiatives and we have just been getting on with it. Our agenda doesn’t stop there I mean today the Prime Minister is sitting down with the Premiers to talk about the review of federation. I am giving a speech today which will touch on some of the housing challenges that they need to face there. You know we spend as a country over $10 billion a year on housing assistance. The Commonwealth actually spends the bulk of that despite it being a state responsibility and yet I don’t think we are making much progress.
MITCHELL:
I would like to get to the housing issue in a moment.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Sure.
MITCHELL:
But look at the GST I mean pretty much the focus of the retreat is going to be taxation and the GST has been put on the table. Do you believe that there is any possibility that the GST will increase?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that is largely in the hands of the states but I would say this about the GST – if you were to increase the GST then I think the Australian people would reasonably and legitimately expect to have their taxes cut in other areas, particularly in income tax, but also in things like stamp duty and payroll tax and land tax and things like that. The other thing is if you put the GST up then in the welfare area you have also got to increase the compensation for those on low incomes. So it doesn’t come without a welfare cost as well.
MITCHELL:
That’s out of your Budget.
MINISTER MORRISON:
That’s right and then you have got to – the reason you have also got to cut income tax is otherwise people have a greater incentive to stay on welfare because the welfare payments are higher and the taxes remain high so why would people then go and work. So it is not as simple it think as just you whack the tax up and states can go and spend a whole bunch more money. I think what taxpayers want us to do it spend better, spend more targetedly and ensure we are doing better with the money that we have and I don’t think they want more taxes to fund a spending addiction of government.
MITCHELL:
So you would say if there is any increase in the GST there has be a reduction in income tax?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think that is the absolute contract. I mean that is what the first contract was and I think the Australian people are a little cynical because the states welsh on the first round of the GST in terms of the taxes that were supposed to go and so I think you come to this debate now which the states are raising I should stress, not the Commonwealth, the states are raising this – then they are going to have to make it very clear that taxes will go and at the moment I can’t see a consensus on that.
MITCHELL:
Would you support Daniel Andrew’s idea instead of an increase in the Medicare Levy which I think he said one point brought in about $7.5 billion a year?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I wouldn’t because states have to deal with their spending not just keep putting their hand out for more money from the Commonwealth and more taxes from the taxpayer. We are already going to increase the Medicare Levy by a half per cent to pay for the NSIS. But that still is going to leave us a $5.2 billion shortfall for the NDIS in 19/20 only a few years away from now which isn’t funded by the increase and that is a Commonwealth expenditure. We are increasing the overall expenditure on disabilities by a third and that has to be funded, part of it will be from the levy.
MITCHELL:
I think we might mean 2020? If there was to be – the GST went from 10 to 15 per cent as Mike Baird has suggested what – how much would you have to increase welfare payments?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well…
MITCHELL:
Done any modelling?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No we haven’t done any modelling on that. I mean I don’t think there is anything approaching a situation where that would be done but I mean I simply outline the principle it is just not a fact of whacking up a tax and then sending a big cheque to the states to spend as they wish. I think the public expects us to get on with dealing with the savings in the expenditure before we go and hit them for more taxes.
MITCHELL:
I’d agree with that. We will take some calls for the Minister, Jenny go ahead please.
CALLER:
Oh yes, two things – first of all when is unemployment benefits going to go up because paying rent and things it is impossible to live on and not everybody is out to rip off the system in fact the majority don’t want to be on the dole and the second thing work for the dole if a person has a casual job say in hospitability and they are getting 10 to 15 hours work a fortnight which also helps save money because they are not getting Centrelink from when they – they are only getting part Centrelink, the work for the dole scheme is impacting that person being able to take any casual work that might come up. I know a person who is in that situation and when work does ring sometimes it is an hour or two before a shift because people don’t turn up but because of work for the dole they can’t take that opportunity to earn.
MITCHELL:
Ok, Minister?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well first – we have no plans given the Budget situation to increase NewStart and NewStart is going to increase over the next ten years by $4 billion a year over that period without touching it on the current projections. It is a very expensive part of the welfare system and I know – it is not meant to be a payment that people are supposed to be on for six months or a year or longer. Sadly we have a lot of people who are in that situation. The second point I would make on work for the dole is look I take on board what the listener – what the caller has said, what Jenny has said. I mean we – work for the dole is meant to do a number of things and we have a work for the dole system that actually allows people to go to work in a real job for work for the dole now for a month and then they can translate on to a six month period where they get an employer subsidy but if there are impediments to people actually getting in real work rather than being at work for the dole then I think we would want to look at that and ensure the flexibility was there in the scheme and I am happy to take that up with Luke Hartsuyker, the Minister responsible.
MITCHELL:
Thank you Jenny, thank you for that. Your speech on housing, well that is the point of it? How much are we spending on public housing?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well we are spending on housing assistance overall, which includes public housing, around $10 billion – over $10 billion a year. The Commonwealth spending over $6 billion, most of that is in Commonwealth rental assistance. We haven’t made any really dent on homelessness now for a very long time, over 100,000 people remain homeless and I am not having a crack at any side of politics here, everyone has had good intentions here but it really hasn’t made much of a difference. I think one of the big reasons for that is we just look at social housing rather than the whole housing sector in its totality. Housing affordability – I mean two thirds of Australians actually live in houses they own or buy the other third are on rents and over – around about half of those are on some form of social housing Commonwealth rental assistance or indeed are homeless. So you need to look at the whole issue, you need to ensure you have strong supply but the way that you deliver the social housing support doesn’t lock people in to social housing because it can be quite an incentive to remain in social housing. You want to actually have people bouncing out of the system not remaining trapped in it. So these are the issues that really have to be on the table.
MITCHELL:
How do you do that, do you set a time limit on them?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well at the moment we just shovel just over $1 billion to the states every year which is one-way traffic. There are no real accountabilities around that and it seems to go into a black hole into the states.
MITCHELL:
Well do you know what is being provided? You give the states money what are they providing in return?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The current agreement which was struck by the previous government has no accountabilities around it of any substance and I would like to see that change for the next time that agreement comes around in two years’ time.
MITCHELL:
What would you like? What sort of accountability?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The sort of thing I would like to see is if we are going to support the states with social housing then I would like to see some changes to land release and planning laws which would see increase of housing supply all around the country which can take pressure off the housing market. Now if we are going to address housing affordability it is just not about providing rent assistance and social housing it is making the overall housing market much more affordable for people. The main thing you have got to do there is you have got to increase supply and that is pretty much entirely in the domain of state and local governments so there has to be a partnership where we can provide the social assistance but the states really need to do more to free up and make the housing market far more efficient and effective.
MITCHELL:
You are talking about $10 billion a year?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
An enormous amount of money, is some of that being wasted?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think – I do I think a lot of it is being wasted and that’s why I think we need a better and more integrated way of spending that money with the states as part of a plan. I mean I was in a project last week in Perth and this was – there is a very similar project here in Melbourne actually it is called the Foyer Project and that is 98 units where homeless young people go in there for a space of two years. It is connected to a TAFE. Over that period of time they have stability of accommodation, they get themselves into education and into a job – 80 per cent are leaving there and going into long term, sustainable, private accommodation in many cases. That is the outcome you want and that is where you have Commonwealth, state, the social welfare community housing group, you have got $1 million going in from BHP as well, so it is a wonderful partnership and Anglicare should be commended for bringing it together.
MITCHELL:
Do you – homelessness is increasing in Melbourne, it is becoming more visible. You walk down the street you see people begging, you see people sleeping rough on the streets which you used not to see, it is now common. Can you ever get rid of that, can you get those people off the streets?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think there are two parts to homelessness, there is what I would call the social homelessness where there are people who may be suffering mental illnesses or there are other things going on in their lives which is putting them in those situations. Then there is an economic homelessness which is something you can possibly be more effective with and it is the sort of project I just talked about which actually was taking homeless young people off the streets, getting them into some stable accommodation. If you don’t have a home then how do you get a job? How do you sort out other things that are happening in your life? How do you get off drugs? How do you deal with any number of – sort out relationships and all of these sorts of things? So you have got to look at in dealing with the social issues and equally the economic. It is not an easy topic but as I say $10 billion and I don’t think we are getting a great return so it is incumbent on us and the states to work together to sort it out.
MITCHELL:
We will take a break more for the Minister, more calls for the Minister Scott Morrison.
[Ad Break]
MITCHELL:
The Minister Scott Morrison is with me, I have more questions we will take another call, Trevor go ahead.
CALLER:
Hi, I am a pensioner I was just going to ask the Minister how they work out our six monthly increases because they started off in 2012 $6.70, then $17.10 per fortnight, $22, $18, $15.50, $11.60 and the last one was $6 which is $3 per week and I have to pay an extra 6 per cent for my rates plus another six or seven per cent for my health insurance. I have had to let that go so I am just wondering why we get $3 a week and I am hoping that we get more for the current one, the September one coming up, it is just crazy from $6 to $22.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Look thanks for the question. There have been no changes to the way the pension is indexed and changed every six months. You are right it goes every six months. It goes up by the highest of the CPI or Male Total Average Weekly Earnings. So whatever the movements in those indices are it goes up by the higher of those indices. So that arrangement was put in place by the previous government and we are maintaining that, we are not changing that and it will continue to go up every six months as it has and off the top of my head I think for a couple pensioner since the election the pension has gone up about $78 a fortnight.
MITCHELL:
Thanks Trevor. Paul go ahead.
CALLER:
Yeah thanks for taking my call Mr Morrison and good morning Neil. Could you please, I am born in Australia now if I needed public housing I have got to wait roughly 15 years or so. If you could just clarify for me please and other listeners there, as a refugee do they get any preferential treatment regarding public housing because it seems there are a lot of people in the area who are refugees they seem to be no longer approved to stay in Australia and they just seem to automatically have houses, units, flat etc….
MINISTER MORRISON:
No – well the short answer is no unless a state government has changed those rules. The state governments decide who does into social housing because they run it. There are about 400,000 social housing units all around the country. That hasn’t changed in a very long time. But there are about over a million households who get Commonwealth rental assistance so more people are supported in the country through that rental assistance than going into social housing. The reason that the lists are so long is the stock of social housing hasn’t changed in a really long time.
MITCHELL:
Well that is ridiculous, isn’t it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the question is do you look more at expanding the rental assistance and have less in social housing because someone in social housing pays 25 per cent of their income where as someone on Commonwealth rental assistance gets a proportion of their rent paid for. So that means you can reach more people with Commonwealth rental assistance without having to buy one house. So they are the sorts of issues Neil that really the states and the Commonwealth have got to talk through.
MITCHELL:
Report in the Herald Sun today about I guess a spike in the number of army veterans – service veterans living on the streets – living in a homeless situation. Are you aware of that? Is there anything that can be done about that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is very distressing and I think in these areas it goes to what I was referring to before when there are a lot of other issues in people’s lives and particularly our veterans have had to deal with some very difficult things and maybe going through any number of personal crisis and that is a fairly regular contributor to homelessness. The great thing though in this area is you have organisations like Soldier On and others who are increasingly getting out there and helping returned veterans to work through those issues. But trying to get them in stable housing I think is a key part of that healing process.
MITCHELL:
We are told there is a refugee boat from Vietnam being escorted out of Australian waters. As a former Minister do you have any boats from Vietnam at any time?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think in those first few months when I was Minister there may have been one from memory but the Vietnamese boats were very rare, they were few and far between and quite bizarre in terms of how they were operated. I mean I obviously have no knowledge of this one because I am no longer in that portfolio but it is rare but the current Minister has done a great job working with the Vietnamese government in terms of ensuring that they don’t get here.
MITCHELL:
A proposal reported today from a parliamentary committee that taxpayers guarantee child support. Is – do you embrace that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well we will look at the report and what I identify with is the sentiment which is you have got people in domestic violence situations and others and dead beat partners who won’t pay their support which is leaving those families in a more distressed situation. But you have got to think through the implications I mean do you really want the government sitting there as a third party in the discussions and arbitration between partners? Because if the Commonwealth has got a liability to have the taxpayer on the hook then there might be a role that the Commonwealth would have to play in settlement then you get into issues of is there some sort of contributory insurance scheme to pay for that sort of thing? There are a lot of issues there but I think George has raised some good points and we will have a look at them but it is a pretty complicated space child support. But in the context of domestic violence though and family domestic violence where the government is doing an enormous amount of work and we have Ken Ley and Rosie Batty coming back to us with a range of recommendations particularly if there are issues there that we might be able to address I think that is a worthy area of enquiry.
MITCHELL:
Hello John, go ahead.
CALLER:
Good morning Minister and Neil.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Hi John.
CALLER:
Question I have is we keep being told that the days of entitlement are over. What about the entitlement for politicians? I just want to ask the question how many cars and how many Comcars are distributed to our Parliamentary members?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I couldn’t tell you, you would have to ask the Minister for…
MITCHELL:
In a sense you don’t distribute the Comcars they are like a hire care you use?
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is a pool of cars that support it.
MITCHELL:
But you get a car don’t you? You get your own car?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
MITCHELL:
Aren’t you provided with a car?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No there is a pool; they are like a pool of taxis.
MITCHELL:
But in your electorate, don’t you get a car to use?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Oh yeah you get a private vehicle that you drive around for that purpose like you might get a vehicle when you are employed by an employer on a lease arrangement. It is a similar arrangement to that as part of your package. But at the end of the day on entitlements and travel and all the rest of it if I had my druthers Neil I would be at home I would be spending time with my family I would be travelling to work.
MITCHELL:
Well get out of politics.
MINISTER MORRISON:
You know an hour down the – an hour into work.
MITCHELL:
Well you have a choice, you don’t have to be a Minister; you don’t have to be in politics.
MINISTER MORRISON:
This is all true, the only reason I leave home is to go to work. The only reason I will get on a plane is to go to work. If had my druthers I would never leave my Shire back in Sydney where I love it.
MITCHELL:
So you don’t want to go to Casablanca with Bronwyn Bishop on a first class ticket?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I have no desire running around on these sorts of things.
MITCHELL:
Ulaanbaatar?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I frankly avoid travel as much as I can and I only go where I have to go. But it is great to be in Melbourne today and I didn’t walk here.
MITCHELL:
John thanks for calling but look and you’re right of course there is legitimate travel and of course politicians and leaders in particularly have to travel overseas on both sides. I think that the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader should be able to go anywhere they like on the public purse at any time but is there really a will to fix this? I was reading a report released last month from the National Audit Office saying there are all these proposals to tighten things up to make it more difficult, make people more accountable, increase the transparency – nothing has been done. It is as if there is not a will to fix it.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think there is, the question is make the rules as tough as you like, frankly do what people think needs to be done because no one goes into Parliament for those things they go there to make a difference and that was the point I was seeking to make. But at the end of the day people have just got to exercise good judgement. You can’t legislate and regulate common sense and good judgement and people need to be accountable for what they are using.
MITCHELL:
But there was no way a helicopter to Geelong was good judgement was it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
She has said that herself and the Prime Minister certainly said that and I would certainly agree with him. The court of public opinion Neil I think is working its magic in this case and the transparency of this I think is also very important. I mean all of these things are on the public record that is why you know about them, they didn’t fall from the sky, they are on a public record and they have been inquired into and there has been quite a controversy here and justifiably and understandably and the Prime Minister made it pretty clear that Bronwyn got a justifiable hiding in the public. So we have to be accountable for it and we have to exercise good judgement and where we don’t, we cop a flogging.
MITCHELL:
Do you think politicians should travel short trips economy class?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am happy to comply with whatever the rules are.
MITCHELL:
Well what do you think the rules should be?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I don’t mind, if that is what people want I am happy to do it but people work within the entitlements that are set, we travel a great deal as I said not because you necessarily want to but because it is part of your job and happy to comply with whatever the rules are. I mean for example our Ministers don’t travel first class anywhere and nor do I think we ever should. But that used to be quite common place amongst Ministers in previous governments, that doesn’t happen now and the Prime Minister made a particular point of that. We very rarely, if ever, travel with spouses, that used to be a fairly common place thing before; the Prime Minister put an end to that in almost all cases. Now you would expect Mrs Abbott to accompany the Prime Minister on important visits and things like that but in terms of the more broader practice he has been very tough on these things but you know I suspect Neil unless politicians are pitching a tent on Parliament House lawn and riding a cart and buggy to Parliament it will never go far enough. But what we have to do is exercise good judgement because if we don’t we will rightly cop a pasting.
MITCHELL:
But can you be trusted? Not you personally but at times it seems to me that there isn’t an understanding, a broad enough understanding of the value of a dollar. There are things that happen in Canberra not just travel but in expenditure that just wouldn’t stand the test of private enterprise. Do you think that…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I have seen a few expense accounts in private enterprise and I am not sure that they are up to scrutiny either Neil. I think shareholders express similar views about that at annual general meetings. But that again is the process there has to be accountability. Why I find this whole episode really frustrating Neil is I am prosecuting a case to actually get our welfare Budget under control and like Jenny the caller before I mean she is on a NewStart allowance and she is doing it tough and I think what these things show is a gross insensitivity to those sorts of circumstances. What I am frustrated about is this has been a terrible distraction from the governments work but worse than that it has caused some justifiable anger in the public.
MITCHELL:
The Labor conference this weekend it’s said it is likely to adopt the turn back the boats policy.
MINISTER MORRISON:
I’ll believe that when I see it. Even if they say they will do it they won’t do it. I mean Kevin Rudd said he would turn boats back the day before he was elected, never turned back one. There will be every caveat and every qualification and all the rest of it and only if the sun rises from the west and sets in the east will they do it and all that sort of nonsense. They just don’t have the guts and stomach for it that’s the end of the day and people know their record. I mean Bill Shorten can’t stand up on boats, he can’t stand up to the unions on trade deals, he can’t stand up to the left on greens policy, and all that sort of nonsense he is the weakest Leader of the Opposition I think we have seen from the Labor Party.
MITCHELL:
Just finally to put the politics and all the debate aside because I know both sides of politics are mourning this man as is the way. I mean you are all essentially decent people in the same boat. Don Randall, who died, the Western Australian politician MP died overnight.
MINISTER MORRISON:
It was terribly shocking. A lot of us where in Canberra yesterday there was a cabinet meeting and some of them had just been at Alby Schultz’s funeral who had recently passed away, who was a colleague. To get the news for Don just at 62 to have died in that way, for Julie his wife, and Tess and Elliott our hearts just went out to them. I mean we are all away from our families a lot and Don as a Western Australian Member would have been away from them a lot. For them to lose him now is just heartbreaking and the Members are sort of getting around each other and I know there has been support particularly amongst the Western Australian colleagues, who are very close. I appreciate the sentiments expressed by those in the Opposition particularly Alannah MacTiernan who actually went up against Don. Don had I thought the most impressive electoral victory in the 2010 election and you know that’s the ultimate test of whether a bloke is fair dinkum if you are in a marginal seat and you keep getting elected like Don was. He was a larrikin, he was a character but he was just fantastic company and I will miss him a lot.
MITCHELL:
Well said, thank you for coming in.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks a lot Neil.