Sky News ‘Richo’ programme
E&OE
GRAHAM RICHARDSON:
G’day Scott, how are you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Graham, you sound a bit worked up mate.
RICHARDSON:
Well I am mate. You know I am a passionate person.
MINISTER MORRISON:
You are.
RICHARDSON:
I actually do find though that when people are stupid in politics I get really upset. Now I have never accused you of that. One thing about you is you are the consummate politician. And so I want to ask you about a few things that I read.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Go for it.
RICHARDSON:
Now for instance, toughing up the dole when it comes to young people leaving school etcetera doesn’t seem to me to be that bad an idea but there is one weakness to it, doesn’t it just throw upon families more of a burden – families often in so many circumstances are already struggling to keep going.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well the measures that we are trying to put through the Senate apply to only 50 per cent of young people in that situation. What we – what was found in New Zealand is they introduced this measure, they said that if you are a job ready young person in New Zealand, which is what our measure is, then you have to wait four weeks before you can go on to the dole. Now in our case that is the Youth Allowance (Other). Now what they found is 40 per cent of the young people in that situation didn’t end up going on the dole. Now that is a good thing, that is the back up to why we are doing what we are doing because we are also investing more in getting young people into work. We are actually investing more than we are saving in this measure through a whole range of different job preparation programmes. But you also need I think the stick as well as the carrot and that means that you know if you are job ready then you don’t get to go straight on to the dole and we don’t want you to go straight from the school gate to the Centrelink front door.
RICHARDSON:
No look I can understand that but as I said I do worry about where families stand on this. Last week on this show I interviewed Adam Creighton who is a brilliant young man, a journalist who writes for The Australian. But above all else he is an economist, now he is certainly not a politician he just deals in pure economics.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I think that is clear.
RICHARDSON:
I am not sure too many people would vote for him but nonetheless he makes good points so I have him on quite regularly because I am always fascinated by what he has to say. The one point he makes is if we are to seriously tackle debt and deficit runaway welfare bills and runaway health bills and all the rest of it we have to start looking at the family home. Is it ever going to be possible to at least use a small percentage of its value to try and do something about where we are on welfare?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, I don’t see that as part of the solution here. Let me tell you what the problems are that I am seeking to address. We have now 54 different supplements and 20 different payments. Now this is a very complex system, it is even more complex than when you were responsible for it. It costs $154 billion a year and that is going to be north of $180 billion in 10 years’ time or even – sorry it is $270 billion in 10 years times and by the end of the budget and forward estimates it is over $180 billion. So I mean the growth in the expenditure here is driven by population and all of those sorts of things but of the widening area of eligibility for payments. So we need to get that under control we need to get the system more simple and we need to get it more manageable. That is where my focus has been and that is what Patrick McClure said when he released his report earlier this year. I have been using that as quite a guide as to how we can reform the welfare system, make it sustainable but make it effective. I mean we spend $154 billion my first job is to make sure that we spend that better than we are now because eight out of ten income taxpayers go to work every day to pay for that bill.
RICHARDSON:
Yeah I understand you know having been there and done that I understand the depth and the breadth of the problem. How you actually fix it is another matter entirely. Now one of the areas that just has just had massive growth, it was growing when I was there and you know I stopped being the Minister for Social Security at the end of 1991 so it’s quite some time ago sadly. But when I think back to it what I remember is that disability pension that just keeps growing at a massive rate. Now where are we up to on that? Have you been able to stem the growth even a little bit or is it still going up on a ridiculous high?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, we have actually and the number of people on the Disability Support Pension is now falling. That is what we have been able to achieve and we have been able to get that under control with a range of measures and I think we will continue to be able to improve on that performance and similarly we have got – we are starting to get with the measures we are proposing on Family Tax Benefits to get that under control and I have been working with the crossbench on those issues and just like we re-engineered quite a number of measures from the first Budget on the pension to get them in a format that could be supported by the Parliament I have been working hard on those issues on Family Tax Benefits as well. So look it is about trying to manage and control the growth and because if you don’t then you end up with a system you can’t afford and it swallows the Budget. That is why as Social Services Minister you also end up being a fairly important economic Minister because it is more than a third of the Federal Budget and that is what you have to try and cope with. But on the DSP particularly now we have these reforms in place that require you to go to a government doctor and the regular – and the review of people’s eligibility when they are younger, that is starting to show some good results and we will continue to work on the compliance in the DSP.
RICHARDSON:
Can I just ask on that score, because I know I raised this with you months ago and I always like to follow up, sometimes that can be annoying for people like yourself but I like to follow up.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Never.
RICHARDSON:
Now what I got irritated about and what I know millions of Australians got irritated about is seeing these evil people over there in Syria running around with guns killing people and knives hacking heads off etcetera and boasting about it on television or on Facebook and showing photos of their kids in horrible circumstances. How is it possible that they were ever on the dole and have we done anything about the doctors that signed off on them being on the dole?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I can’t really comment too specifically on any sort of pending investigations or anything like that, Graham. But the thing about those who were on those payments, there is an automatic system that we have in place on portability which means as soon as they are out of the country after four weeks, I believe it is, they just cut out anyway.
RICHARDSON:
No but that is not my point, my point is how did they get on it, not whether it stopped when they left.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No I know you are making the point about the doctors…
RICHARDSON:
How did they get on it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Sure, well what we have done is make sure that people have to go to government doctors. What you are talking about is pursuing a potential criminal action on behalf of a doctor who might have engaged in fraud. Now you wouldn’t expect me to comment on those types of investigations because I wouldn’t want to compromise any of them but suffice to say the issue was well raised with me Graham and we are not unaware.
RICHARDSON:
You are not sitting on your hands is that what you are telling me?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Have you ever known me to do that?
RICHARDSON:
No I haven’t that would be out of character. Sometimes I wish you would by the way but we’ll get to that in a moment. Now by the way when you said then, I note your comment that you are negotiating, liaising with the backbench. You haven’t hired someone on $150,000 to do it for you; you’re doing it yourself are you?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Of course I do. But I mean I have great staff as well who work with me on this and we have had some success with the measures I have dealt with in the past in both this portfolio and the last but you have been in the Senate it is a special place and there is a lot of relationships and you just work on those relationships and listen to people.
RICHARDSON:
I never had the numbers there either, it is very frustrating at times and it can get very difficult. Now Jacqui Lambie’s comments about her son are quite extraordinary I don’t agree with some comments today in the newspapers that I have read criticising her for it. I thought it took some courage and frankly if we don’t start to admit these things then we are going to get nowhere. I am doing a special on ice which I can announce will probably be on the second of September. I have spoken to a whole lot of people, I have two more interviews to conduct next week and then we will edit it and get it to air. But what I have found in my investigations is quite extraordinary but one of the things I can say is in NSW there are only – the numbers in the few hundreds the beds you can go to in rehab facilities. This is going to require massive expense, massive expense and I just wonder where it comes from because it doesn’t seem to me that governments state or federal are going anywhere near it. I note this week the NSW government made an announcement about a couple of new places to go but I mean it is so small compared to a massive growing problem. What are we going to do about it?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well you are right about the growing problem, as I understand it of methamphetamine use ice was at the start of this decade around 20 per cent it is now over half or around about half. It is growing and you have only got to – the thing about ice is it touches pretty much every corner of our community. One of the things that really worries me about it is you often find it in a lot of regional communities. Michael McCormack who is a really good member from the Riverina and Wagga is the centre of his electorate. He was sharing with us just this week about what was happening with ice in his own community. I was on the South Coast of NSW on the weekend and you are in communities and you could tell when someone is on ice and they are scratching their skin and all of those sorts of things and they are living next door to pensioners and people who are quite vulnerable. So the consequences of this are just horrific. Now we have got an – had an interim report that has come from Ken Ley to the government about a whole range of measures that we will have to put in place and work with the states. But it is going to have to be a whole of government and between tiers of government response because it is one of – it is a barbeque stopper but for all the right reasons it is something that I think is of great concern; there is law enforcement, there is early intervention, there are health issues, there is dealing with it once it has taken a hold of someone. I mean I am advised that this thing can be used sometimes for some years before it escalates to the more acute phase but it can also happen far more quickly…
RICHARDSON:
It can happen in a matter of weeks.
MINISTER MORRISON:
It is very accessible. It can Graham, so there is no script on this and it is concerning Australians all around the country and I am one of them. It is happening in my community, it is happening in the community where my friends and family live and I don’t think there is a politician in this place who hasn’t got this high on their agenda.
RICHARDSON:
There is no doubt about it I just hope it gets higher I am really concerned about this.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Sure.
RICHARDSON:
Mate, I just suggest watch the show on the second of September it is going to be worth watching. As always Scott thanks for your time, I appreciate it.
MINISTER MORRISON:
No worries Graham it is good to be with you.