5AA Leon Byner
E&OE
LEON BYNER:
Scott thanks for joining us today.
MINISTER MORRISON:
G’day Leon it is great to be here in Adelaide again.
BYNER:
Good now if you got a question for the Minister 8223 0000. But before we get to that, and I have a couple of issues I want to run by you, the reason you are in town is to make an announcement about the response to the Chloe Valentine issues.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yeah that’s right. This was an incredibly disturbing case as we all know and not just here in South Australia right but across the country. The Premier wrote to the Commonwealth following the coroner’s recommendations and that was that income management, which means the BasicsCard, can be there mandatorily as a result of a child protection measure and we will be doing just that. That will come into effect from the 1st October; it will apply to the Greater Adelaide region.
BYNER:
What will that mean?
MINISTER MORRISON:
That means that if there is a child protection order that it can involve income management that people in that situation would have to have their welfare payments done through a BasicsCard which can control what people spend the money on. So it means that a child in those incredibly difficult environments at least is not going to see the money going off the drugs and things like this. Now it is not a cure all, it is not an absolute protection in these cases but the coroner made the recommendation. I want to commend the Premier for acting on that and writing to us and we are at one of this issue because I think on child protection I think all politicians are at one.
BYNER:
Look, on this business of child protection there is also a problem of database information and people can go interstate who night be under the watchful eye of one department in another state, they come here and no one knows anything. Is there a deficiency in the system on this?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well look that is something that Michael Keenan, the Minister for Justice, would be working with the various state and territory jurisdictions. Look in all of those areas there is much closer collaboration I think today than there has been a year ago, ten years ago and so on because there is unanimity of effort on this. All these agencies I think want to work more closely together I mean an area where I work closely with them in on family domestic violence and that is an issue where there is no absence of good faith, there is no absence of good will or commitment to try and get things done but there is sometimes duplication where we have it. Another area we work in is in homelessness and that is one of the other reasons I am in town today, the National Partnership Agreement on Homelessness has been signed up to by the South Australian Government and I will be out there having a chat to the guys at Common Ground today who do a great job.
BYNER:
Yeah that was set up by a lot of philanthropic business people, which is fantastic.
MINISTER MORRISON:
So they will be getting funding out of this new arrangement here in South Australia from the federal government.
BYNER:
Fantastic, because I think we need to know what that will do for the homeless of which there are many on our streets at the moment.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well it will provide the support and services that Common Ground has been doing for a long period of time and through the National Partnership Agreement which means a matching of state and federal funds we are putting intervention funding and services into people who find themselves in this situation. Because if you don’t have stable housing it is a lot harder to get a job, it is a lot harder to get the other issues in your life that may not be going the way you would want them to under control and getting stability in people’s lives is really important to help them get off welfare and into work and get control of all of their lives again.
BYNER:
There is a letter here written by one of our listeners Bob Parr OAM about the $9 million withdrawal of funds for pensioner travel and those who are veterans and I want to read it to you. It says,
BOB PARR:
“Mr Morrison, people worldwide are looking for different holidays and that could reap huge financial benefits and employment to encourage world travellers to experience the Ghan Rail trip from Darwin to Adelaide, stop overs in Katherine, Alice Springs then on to Adelaide finishing up in maybe KI. However, the Ghan may now have to reduce services because of the elimination of the pensioner concessions. A mingy amount it is, surely the economic benefits of those visiting Alice Springs, Katherine Gorge, Darwin as well as at certain times Coober Pedy far outweighs the cost of the subsidy to members of our community who deserve it. I urge you to reconsider this cut.”
BYNER:
He goes on to say, “I visit KI regularly, have experience the Ghan – enjoyable trip, I am 70, still working so paid full fare.” What do you say?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well pensioner concessions for state matters are funded by state governments. They are not federal issues. I mean what we do for pensioner…
BYNER:
The pension comes from the feds…
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, these things are funded – pensioner concessions for state travel and all of those sorts of things are funded by state governments and when they cut those concessions and don’t want to pay for them that is matter for state governments.
BYNER:
Did not the federal government cut the $9 million?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No, what we have done is insured that we will continue the benefits that go to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, the Energy Supplements, all of these sorts of things – the things that the Commonwealth provides, access to bulk billing and Medicare. They are things the federal government does, now other states have actually stumped up to ensure that they can continue to provide the various concessions that are provided at a state level so it is not the Commonwealth’s job to subsidise the running of private businesses and if the state government wishes to provide these concessions in their state as other states do then that is a matter for the state government.
BYNER:
The $9 million was withdrawn by the federal government though?
MINISTER MORRISON:
What I am saying is, is the way the system works is state government concessions which includes these types of travel are a matter for the state governments.
BYNER:
Are you going to encourage the Premier when you see him today to…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I am not seeing the Premier today but if he wishes to do that good for him, that is a matter entirely for him I am not going to tell him how he should be managing these things but I can assure you that it is a matter for the state government.
BYNER:
You’ve taken the money out and the said well it is the state’s responsibility let them fess up?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well because it is state travel, it is a state service. Just like it is for pensioner discount cards in NSW to travel on the state rail system or the bus system. In Western Australian they have more generous arrangements then you have here in South Australian but that is because the Western Australia state government have decided to do that.
BYNER:
See I tell you why this becomes more of an issue for you, that is because recently in the last couple of weeks you have had this very unfavourable publicity about travel that MPs have taken and it has cost one job at a very high level. I think what has happened is that the public’s belief about their elected members is probably less than what it ought to be and this would be a very good piece of good faith I think to restore in the community that we are all the same.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well again if the state government, because there are politicians at a state level, there is politicians at a federal level and I don’t disagree with you Leon that the events of the past month have not reflected well on politicians generally. But that is no reason to go ahead and get rid of a change which means that states are responsible for things that they are responsible for and the federal government is responsible for things that we are responsible for. What we are going to do is continue to ensure people have access to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, that they have access to the bulk billing medical practices I mean that is what is within our responsibility and we are delivering that not only to pensioners but also to those who are on the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card.
BYNER:
Now there is a sledge going on in tennis but the one I am going to talk about is the one going on in politics where the Attorney General, Mr Brandis, had this to say about yours and Malcolm Turnbull’s idea that there should be a referendum,
BRANDIS:
“we are getting ahead of ourselves. The point I make, and this is not controversial, is that under our system of government you only have a referendum for one purpose and that is the purpose prescribed by section 128 of the Constitution – to amend the Constitution. The Constitution, as it stands, contains in section 51 a head of legislative power called the marriage power. So there is absolutely no legal ambiguity here that were a future Parliament to legislate for same sex marriage it has the power to do that under the existing terms of the marriage power. The way to do it would be through a plebiscite not a referendum because no constitutional change would be necessary were the Parliament, or a future Parliament I should say, to decide to legislate for same sex marriage.”
BYNER:
Now Scott are you disappointed that on three occasion yesterday you appeared to be slapped down by another Minister?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I disagree with George, respectfully, not in terms of the point he has been making I don’t dispute the fact that the High Court – the Justices of the High Court decided in 2013 that the Commonwealth Parliament had the power to make laws in relation to marriage and that is fair enough but that was the court. What I am saying is that the Australian people should decide ultimately these matters and – not the politicians, not the judges for that matter. I know that Mark Dreyfus, the Labor Attorney General – the Shadow Attorney General and our Attorney General have this view about the legalities of it. My argument isn’t about the legalities; there is no legal impediment to actually changing the Constitution in the way I have proposed either.
BYNER:
Do you want a plebiscite or a referendum?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I will tell you why I want a referendum and if this can be achieved through another method well and good, what we need is a public vote, a people’s vote which is a compulsory vote – we are not running some sort of news poll on the public purse. We want a compulsory vote, we want a vote that is going to bind action on behalf of the government, we want a vote which ensures that both sides of the argument can be properly put to the Australian people and properly funded to enable people to make up their mind. I think all of these things are incredibly important and the forth thing is, this is a really big change Leon and I think there is a very good case for there to be a special majority in terms of how something so significant as this would have to clear in order that we get to this point and that is whatever is resolved by this public vote process everyone can accept the outcome and move on, me included. So a special majority, I make an argument for a special majority in this case, now I make an argument for compulsory voting that both sides of the case be funded and that it be binding. Now if we can do that I think we can resolve this issue. Now if it can be done without a referendum, well fine but if those four things I think can be satisfied then well and good. The lawyers can have their lawyer’s picnic over these sorts of things they always do and whether it is in my party or the other party they will talk about these things endlessly. What I know is I want to give the Australian people the say on this.
BYNER:
Alright, we are talking with Scott Morrison and we will take some calls right after this.
[Ad Break]
BYNER:
I am talking today with Scott Morrison who is the Social Welfare Minister – Social Services Minister. Scott, this gay marriage debate I don’t think has been handled very well by the Liberals at all because you have reports today that Chris Pyne wanted the Nationals not to turn up, you have the plebiscite that was suggested by the PM and when pressed on whether he would stick by the plebiscites result he wouldn’t give an answer. This is a bit of a mess isn’t it really?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Look people can be critical of the process if they wish but we have got to bring this back to fundamentals. I mean what is going to be the difference at the next election? At the next election the Liberal and National Parties will be saying to the Australian people “you are getting to decide this issue.”
BYNER:
But the election won’t decide that all it will decide if you have a referendum maybe…
MINISTER MORRISON:
What we are saying is if we are elected there will be a people’s vote on this issue and look at my electorate, my electorate I suspect the majority and in fact I know the majority of people have the same view as me. But there is a minority of people in my electorate who don’t share my view and I can’t represent their view on this issue in the Parliament because it is different to mine. The same in Tony Burke’s electorate, Tony Burke has a very different electorate to mine but it has a high proportion of people from Eastern Orthodox faith, Catholic faith, Muslim Faith, he can’t represent their views…
BYNER:
So who in Cabinet want a referendum as to those who don’t? Now obviously Senator Brandis doesn’t…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I think the clear disposition of the Party Room the other night was that we needed to have a people’s vote, solution and way forward. That was important so it was the people to decide not the politicians, not the judges. Bill Shorten wants to have the Parliament decide this issue over the top of the Australian people and I don’t think that is the most democratic way to deal with it. The options are a referendum or a plebiscite to deal with that, now the four criteria I set out before that it is a compulsory vote, everyone has to turn up – those things are not traditionally able to be done through a plebiscite, they are not done through a plebiscite. The other thing about a special majority is this; a majority in a majority of states, why should a majority in the big states of NSW and Victoria determine what should happen in Tasmania or South Australia here or Western Australia. I mean the majority in the majority of states I think is a suitable bar that should be met in order to proceed with the change of this nature.
BYNER:
Alright we have had a new Speaker selected, then we had the marathon meeting about same sec marriage and yesterday there was the Dyson Heydon debacle now this suggests to voters that there is a sense of chaos within the body politics of this government.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I reject that and that is based on the commentary of the atmospherics of some of these issues. But let’s look at the substance also of what has happened this week; we committed to a 26-28 per cent target by 2030 over 2005 levels on emissions reductions.
BYNER:
What will that do to power prices? Go up?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well there will be – we have been doing the modelling and the modelling will come out but what I do know is that we got rid of the Carbon Tax and we are going to meet our emissions reductions targets..
BYNER:
But see…
MINISTER MORRISON:
Let me finish Leon, but power prices have been falling. So what we have been able to do is we have been able to achieve emissions reductions targets without a Carbon Tax and we believe that is what we can continue to do in relation to electricity prices. Now Labor’s approach is to have we believe a much higher target, because that is what they modelled when they were leaving government and they wanted to have a Carbon Tax and they will bring back a Carbon Tax and that is how they will try and meet there targets which will mean higher electricity prices.
BYNER:
How will your policy on renewable energy effect prices, do you know?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well ours was what went through the Parliament recently and that was a negotiated outcome I think from memory was 23 per cent. Now Labor wants a 50 percent, a 50 per cent target on renewables. Now what that will do I think to power prices I think is fairly obvious to all. What we have got I think is a common ground positon on this; I think we have a sensible workable position. Now any emissions reductions target I want to be clear is of course going to cost the economy, it will, I mean there is a cost to reducing emissions and so what is a sustainable cost and what is a cost you can embark on without having to put pernicious taxes on which is what the Labor Party does. Well we believe we can do that at 26-28 per cent. It means that we are in the pack with the rest of the world on addressing this issue which I think people here whether in South Australia or around the country want us to do by in large and so we will get on with that.
BYNER:
Let’s talk to Raylene, Raylene you are talking to Scott Morrison.
CALLER:
Oh hello Leon, I am really really angry. I have paid taxes since I was 15, I am now 65 going on 66 and all we hear about is gay marriage. We have got people dying with cancer, we have got people that can’t get a home to live in, we have got people that can’t put food on the table, we have got people losing jobs. Why don’t we concentrate on that and if these people want to live together let them live together who cares whether they are married or not? Most people don’t get married these days, forget about the gay marriage and get on with the real stuff in this country.
BYNER:
What do you say Scott?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well Raylene I would be very happy to do that, I mean I wasn’t the one who raised the issue at all I would be very happy just to continue on with the important work we are doing on family domestic violence and on homelessness and dealing with the issues right across my social services portfolio, getting people into work. That is what I am focused on every day I am not focused on the issue of same sex marriage every day at all.
BYNER:
But the divisions within your government about who thinks what is fodder for attention to be taken away of these issues that Raylene talks about.
MINISTER MORRISON:
The matter of same sex marriage has been brought into the Parliament and Bill Shorten was the first one to actually put a bill into the Parliament to try and ignite a debate in the Parliament around this issue and I am sure he had his motives for doing that and I don’t think they were that pure. The government has always said that we don’t believe this is a top order issue; the top order issues are community safety, jobs and growing the economy. That’s what we are focused on.
BYNER:
On the jobs issue as Social Services Minister what can you do for SA where we have record unemployment at 8.2 per cent, northern suburbs even higher, a record number of males out of work in SA. What are you going to do?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well when the Prime Minister was here just a week or so ago he announced the decisions on the frigates…
BYNER:
That’s five years away.
MINISTER MORRISON:
You understand probably better than anyone what the gap was going to be if those frigates weren’t brought forward.
BYNER:
Yes.
MINISTER MORRISON:
If the previous government had made a decision in 2011, now that is not me saying that that is the defence forces and others, if they had actually made a decision in 2011 on any of these procurement issues then we wouldn’t have the problems we now have here in South Australia. They sat on their hands for six years on defence procurement now we are taking decisions on that, we are bringing forward those projects here in South Australia which will provide a continuity of build and that is the first prize that we have been able to deliver for South Australia and now we are working through the other issues on the defence procurement. Now more broadly than that in the last Budget we introduced our instant asset right off which has had a good boost to business confidence and has backed the judgements of small business to go out there and invest and employ people. On top of that we have $330 million worth of employment programmes particularly for young people to transition them into work and to make sure they can stick in a job when they get in a job so we are putting our money where our mouth is on this Leon. They are tough issues here in South Australia, the previous government just didn’t make any decisions, let it drift – we are making them and we will continue to make them.
BYNER:
So in an answer for short term jobs in the next year or two – we need them now, what is it that is going to be the facilitator on this?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well I have already announced a whole host of measures; I just went through them all. Particularly in terms of the Budget in what we are doing for small business, now this was the biggest Budget for small business in living memory and small business is what drives and economy like South Australia, it drives the economy all around the country.
BYNER:
Yes, but you see our unemployment rate may well even go higher despite all this.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that is why we continue to do everything we can to keep sound fiscal management in place and to ensure that the economy can grow and to remove the barriers. $2 billion we have ripped out of the cost of regulation and compliance for business in this country. That is what we are doing to support business, business will grow this economy Leon, business will grow the economy and we need to back the business to grow the jobs.
BYNER:
We are talking with Social Services Minister Scott Morrison we will take some calls right after this.
[Ad Break]
BYNER:
And I am joined by Scott Morrison the Social Services Minister in the studio taking calls. Let’s talk to former DPP Steve Pallaras. Steve you are talking to Steve, Scott you are talking with Steve.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Hi Steve.
CALLER:
Good morning Leon, good morning Minister. Two comments I would like to make please and it really addresses the point of the lady who rang up earlier about whether this is an issue or not. This is not an issue as I see it about preferences, not an issue about positions, not an issue about sex. The issue is about equal human rights for every citizen in this country. That is what it is about and that’s why it is important. As for the responsibility of the various political parties who were advocating one side or the other, in my view the Liberal Party has a responsibility to stand for something. It has a responsibility to make its position known so that people can understand where they are in respect of human rights. It is no good a party whether Labor or Liberal hiding behind the suggestion of well we will have a plebiscite or a referendum, we won’t make up our minds. The very job of the Liberal Party or any elected member of Parliament is to make up their mind and speak at this issue so they can be judged on that position. What we see at the moment is the government running scared. That is not good enough.
BYNER:
What do you say Scott?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well Steve a lot of helpful advice there but let’s go back to what the Liberal Party did do. We supported in the Parliament before last the removal of all the discrimination in relation to people in same sex relationships. People in same sex relationships now do not pay one more cent in tax, receive one less cent in welfare, all the issues around superannuation, all the discrimination issues that may have presented previously were all dealt with two Parliaments ago and had bi-partisan support. The only issue now…
[interruption]
MINISTER MORRISON:
Steve I listened to you mate and you ran through your arguments. Those issues of discrimination have already been dealt with by the Parliament. The issue now relates only to one question and that is the question of marriage applying to other than heterosexual relationships. The Coalition has had a policy Steve for a very long time. We put it into the Act in 2004 and that remains the Coalition’s policy. But what we are saying now is we recognise that there are strong views right across the community and we think the Australian people should decide that matter for such a significant change, not the politicians, not the judges, not the lawyers but the Australian people and that is our position.
BYNER:
Julie at Broadview, you are talking to Scott Morrison.
CALLER:
Good morning Minister.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Good morning.
CALLER:
I wonder if you could give us an update on what is happening with the Australian Disability Enterprise wage case please?
MINISTER MORRISON:
You are referring to the Commonwealth’s involvement in making payments to support a higher level of wage directly in subsidising those agencies that are engaging those workers is that right?
CALLER:
That is right yes.
MINISTER MORRISON:
That matter is still on foot and we are still working those issues through. I am happy to get another update through Leon to you.
BYNER:
Alright.
MINISTER MORRISON:
We can do that but that matter is still on foot.
BYNER:
Peter at Elizabeth good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning Leon. How are you going Scott?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I am good, how are you?
CALLER:
Good to see you hanging around and actually taking calls.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Happy to.
CALLER:
The problem Leon I see is the Liberal Party for some reason is trying to undermine workers in Australia. They talk about getting work programmes back and people back into the workforce, what about these 457 and these 747 [sic] visas? They take up 12% of the workforce which is one in eight, do we cap them or are they still coming in and are we still encouraging them to take our jobs? What are you going to do about that?
MINISTER MORRISON:
There are only about 100,000 people who are on a 457 visa in Australia. There are 100,000 and we have a labour force of …
BYNER:
What about other visas that do the same thing though?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The other ones are Work and Holiday visas for people who came as backpackers and every dollar they earn here they spend here. That is tourism support for the economy which is very important here in South Australia. But on 457s the number of 457s, I mean I am no longer the Immigration Minister so I don’t have the latest figures to hand but the last I saw the number of people on 457 visas and the number of applications have been declining because it very much goes with the economy. We require a work test, that you can’t fill the job with an Australian. That is the law, we haven’t changed that. I know the unions go around telling lies about this but we haven’t changed that law. There is still the requirement for the advertising, for the need to have an Australian first. That is the policy, it hasn’t changed.
BYNER:
There is a big push from corporates to bring in their own workers from their own places of residence, not Australia.
MINISTER MORRISON:
And they have to comply with Australian law if they want to do that and that requires that an Australian is not available to do that job. That is the law. We haven’t changed it.
BYNER:
There has been a lot of discussion about what is in the Chinese free-trade agreement and I know you said to me off-air nothing has changed but the fact is though that in a project worth more than $150 million it is available to the investor whoever that is to bring in their own labour.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well that is the existing law…
BYNER:
Is it good and why?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Well if you are going to have a major project and if they are going to be able to satisfy the test around being unable to attract Australian labour to do that work, do you want the project not to happen? Let’s say for every one…
BYNER:
But are we training people adequately so there are the right people around? We have been doing traineeships and apprenticeships for years so what have we been doing?
MINISTER MORRISON:
The training issues I think are very live but you also have the issue of a lumpy big project and so you are going to need someone for about a year and then you won’t need anyone after that because of the lumpiness of that project. So for that project to actually happen which is also going to employ lots and lot and lots of Australians – I tell you what, a business or project that doesn’t exist does not employ anyone, anyone at all. I want the investment.
BYNER:
As the Social Services Minister, again explain to SA quickly what you will do particularly for the northern suburbs that have got massive unemployment particularly among males and young males.
MINISTER MORRISON:
We had in the last budget a project that is seeking to get particularly long-term unemployed males into work by helping them deal with the social skills and various other things that are preventing them from being at work at the moment. We are also doing it with refugee and migrant communities who have particular challenges with young people getting into jobs. We have projects right across – the work for the dole scheme that actually enables you to work in a real business for the dole which supports businesses. So there are umpteen programmes Leon but at the end of the day the economy has to grow and that is what we are focused on. Jobs and growth in the economy, they are our priorities.
BYNER:
You guys are not polling well, is it likely there could be another challenge for leadership?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
BYNER:
No?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
BYNER:
Are you sure?
MINISTER MORRISON:
Yes.
BYNER:
Nothing at all?
MINISTER MORRISON:
No.
BYNER:
So all these sorts of differences between Ministers and comments from one to another albeit a little bit of sledging that is just all part of politics?
MINISTER MORRISON:
I think it is exaggerated in terms of the commentary on it. Frankly the issues we were talking about before are passionate issues. People are passionate about them. That is fine I have no issue with that. I respect all of those views. We have a very constructive conversation but I have to agree with our first caller, there are far more important issues, there are much more important issues…
BYNER:
And the number one right now is…
MINISTER MORRISON:
It’s jobs, it’s jobs and it’s jobs.
BYNER:
Scott, thank you for joining us.
MINISTER MORRISON:
Thanks a lot Leon, good to be here in South Australia and to be with you particularly.