2GB Radio Drive with Ben Fordham
FORDHAM:
I told you last week, right off the back of these inquiries underway at the moment into the Pink Batts scheme, that we need to be really careful that this isn’t another one of them and now I notice comments made by the Treasurer Joe Hockey just yesterday, if we don’t get on top of the proper management of the NDIS, not only would it not be sustainable, but it could end up as big a farce as the Pink Batts program. That, yesterday from the Treasurer, Joe Hockey. We’ve been hearing reports that this is, well, it is a massive multi-billion dollar project, we know that, and we’re hearing reports it’s in a shambles, just years before it’s supposed to be fully operational. So what are the known problems in the NDIS? Well, it is running on a completely unrealistic timetable, there could be a budget blowout, hundreds of jobs are still vacant, they’ve only just appointed a scheme actuary, and the computer systems, well they’re only two years old, but they’re already completely outdated and have to be replaced. Is the NDIS, the National Disability Insurance Scheme really going to be servicing 450,000 people by 2019. Mitch Fifield is the man in charge of making that happen, he is the Assistant Minister for Social Services. He joins me on the line. Mitch, good afternoon.
FIFIELD:
Good afternoon, Ben
FORDHAM:
It’s not going to happen is it, by 2019?
FIFIELD:
Well, we have to make sure that the NDIS is rolled out in full. The disappointing thing is that the previous Government were more focussed on a political timetable than a prudent timetable for implementation. And what they did is, they brought forward by a year the commencement of the scheme trial sites and what that has done is to fundamentally undermine some of the key capabilities of the scheme. They simply haven’t laid a good foundation.
FORDHAM:
Julia Gillard moved this forward so that she could go to an election by saying alright, it’s underway, it’s happening. In the fair dinkum department, I know you need agreements fromt the states and territories to slow down the rollout, but you need to slow down the rollout don’t you?
FIFIELD:
Look Ben, I’m not looking for ways to slow down the NDIS, what I’m looking for are ways to deliver the NDIS. Which is why I asked the Board of the Agency, when we came into Government, to say, look guys, tell us, can you do this? Do you have the capability to do it? And the report that they furnished told us that the Agency was essentially like a plane that had been half built and was being completed while it was still in the air. We’ve got to make sure we fix the foundations so we can deliver…
FORDHAM:
Ok, but hang on Mitch, in one breath you’re saying ‘look, I’m not telling anyone to slow down, I still want to deliver this thing. You’ve got experts describing this as a half built plane up in the air and people trying to make repairs in mid-air, doesn’t that say to you ‘hang on a moment, we need to slow down’?
FIFIELD:
Yeah, look, Ben I think there are two things here. One are the trial sites themselves and the staff of the NDIS Agency have done an incredible job getting the trial sites around the nation up and running. That’s the good news. And also good news is that there are now over 2,000 Australians with disability getting the better deal that they deserve. On the negative side of things, because they’ve been operating with such a compressed timeframe, the staff of the agency haven’t had the opportunity to do the planning for full rollout that you would have hoped, at this stage, that they had done. So what I’m expecting from the Board of the Agency is their advice as to whether they think that they have the capability to deliver the scheme in the timeframe…
FORDHAM:
Ok, but you’re hearing all of the noises, you’re seeing all of the signs and the signs are saying this has been rushed up beyond its capabilities, therefore, isn’t it better to say to people ‘look we want to get this right so we’re going to slow it down and we’re going to get it right as opposed to what we’ve seen in the past’. What did Joe Hockey mean, and I know that you were asked this question last night on the ABC, on 7:30, I’m not sure you answered it. I’d love you to answer this for me. What did Joe Hockey mean when he said ‘if we don’t get on top of the proper management of the NDIS, not only would it not be not sustainable, but it could end up being as big a farce as the Pink Batts programme. What did the Treasurer mean when he was linking the NDIS to Pink Batts?
FIFIELD:
What he meant was that this scheme is all in the delivery. It’s great in concept, but we’ve got to make sure that it’s delivered efficiently, that it’s delivered well, so that those Australians who need the support, those Australians with profound disabilities, get it. Now, what I have asked the Board of the NDIS Agency to do is to give me their advice as to whether they think they have the ability to deliver the scheme according to the agreements which have been entered into between the Commonwealth and the States and Territories. Obviously, the Agency, which is tasked with delivering this scheme, is in the best position to provide independent, objective advice to government as to what they can and can’t do.
FORDHAM:
The way this whole thing is structured, I mean you can’t really be calling shots on this on your own can you, because it’s a partnership with the states and territories?
FIFIELD:
Absolutely, it’s a shared venture between the Commonwealth and the States and Territories. So there can’t be a change to the timetable without renegotiation and a without the agreement of the States and Territories.
FORDHAM:
You haven’t asked the States and Territories yet whether or not you can slow it down?
FIFIELD:
Well, Ben, the first thing that we’ve got to have is the advice from the Agency as to what they can do and what they can’t do. Once we’ve got that, we’ll be in a position to know where to next.
FORDHAM:
The scheme actuary, who’s responsible for assessing the financial sustainability of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, when was the actuary appointed?
FIFIELD:
Within the last few months Ben, and you’re quite right, this is a scheme that’s meant to be based on insurance principles. It’s difficult to have a scheme based on insurance principles when you don’t have a scheme actuary in place.
FORDHAM:
So you haven’t had the actuary in place who is supposed to be weighing up all of these numbers in the first place?
FIFIELD:
Well, that’s right, and again, this is a function of the previous government having brought forward the commencement of trial sites by a year, from the Productivity Commission’s more prudent timetable. And I’ve got to say, in the context, where the timeframe has been so compressed, what the staff of the Agency have done, in getting the trial sites up, is simply incredible…
FORDHAM:
Don’t you earn more respect though by putting your hands up, and I know you’re saying oh, you’re waiting on the agency for their advice. Don’t we collectively earn more respect by putting our hands up and saying ‘guys, this isn’t ready. I’m not going to roll this thing out’? When you’ve got 450,000 people and their families relying on this thing, we’ve got families with disabilities who are tied up in the whole thing, billions of dollars on the line, warnings from our Treasurer that it could be another Pink Batts. Don’t you earn more point by putting your hand up and saying we’re not ready?
FIFIELD:
Look, Ben, we as a government are putting our hands up and saying there are serious problems with the foundations that have been laid by the previous government. It’s because of the actions that we’ve taken that there has been an independent capability assessment which has been handed to the Board of the Agency. The next step is for the Board of the Agency to say, in light of this capability review, ‘here are the things we can do and here are the things we can’t do’. We’re being completely up front. We’re being completely transparent. There are issues. What our job is, as a government, is to make sure that we can address the foundations so that we can deliver a full scheme.
FORDHAM:
Have costs blown out by as much as 30 per cent?
FIFIELD:
In the first quarter of the operation of the scheme, average package costs were about 30 per cent higher than was anticipated. Those have come down a bit to being about 15 per cent higher than anticipated in the second quarter. It’s early days in terms of the scheme on the ground. But Ben, something we’ve got to remember is the whole purpose of these trial sites is to learn lessons. The previous government called them launch sites. We’ve changed that and said these are trial sites. We’ve got to learn lessons. We’ve got to make changes, where necessary, before proceeding to full rollout. And that’s what we are going to do. We are not going to have a situation where the scheme does anything other than deliver proper support to the people who need it. We are going to make sure that the foundations are solid.
FORDHAM:
Ok, I don’t envy the job you’ve got to do, it’s going to be a nightmare. Mitch Fifield, thanks for your time.
FIFIELD:
Thanks indeed, Ben.