ABC Brisbane 612 Morning with Steve Austin
E & OE
AUSTIN:
Senator Fifield, good morning to you, thank you for coming on this morning.
FIFIELD:
Good morning, Steve
AUSTIN:
Can I get you to respond to David’s story, first of all.
FIFIELD:
Sure, from the sound of what David said, his wife is in receipt of a home care package. There are some changes which were instigated by the previous government and notice given about three years ago, that home care packages would transition to what is called consumer directed care. What consumer directed care means is that for the first time people in receipt of home care packages would know how much the budget was, would know what the various elements of that budget were and would be able to negotiate the elements of that with their service provider. Previously…
AUSTIN:
So just help clarify something for me. Forgive me, it is me who is not clear. David said that from 1 July these changes come in, isn’t that as a result of the Budget announced last week?
FIFIELD:
No, there were changes announced in the Budget last week which come into effect in February 2017 where money will attach to the individual rather than to the service provider, but there were some earlier changes instigated by the previous government where progressively home care packages were changed to the consumer directed care models. And by 1 July the objective is that all home care packages will be instituted according to the consumer directed care model. I think the situation that David and his wife find themselves in is that previously, because there was no transparency, what some aged care providers were doing was taking money from one person’s package and topping up another person’s package. So what that means is someone was getting less than they should have been and someone else was being topped up.
Now the reason the previous government gave three years notice to aged care providers was so that over time they could address that situation. Now I think there are two things here, one, it would appear that aged care providers, or not all aged care providers, have availed that opportunity to make adjustments over time…
AUSTIN:
Look I’m sorry, forgive me Senator but I’m having difficulty understanding your language, bottom line, what are you saying? Bottom line, give me the punch line.
FIFIELD:
There is a relatively small number of people who, we are discovering, haven’t been transitioned over time to the new arrangements, for whom it is coming as a surprise that they have a budget and that they have transparency for the budget. Now something that has happened, and I am not sure if this is David’s case, is sometimes there are people who are assessed as requiring say a Level 4 or a Level 3 package, which are high-level packages, that have gone to a provider, a provider didn’t have a Level 3 or 4, but they had a Level 2 package and then they would top up that Level 2 package for that individual from money that someone else had been allocated but they weren’t using.
So what I want to put in place to assess, on a case-by-case basis, situations like David’s, where perhaps, obviously I don’t know the details, but Glenda might be on a Level 2 package but actually entitled to a higher level package. So we might look to see if we can allocate higher-level packages to those providers who had people, historically, on lower level packages than they should have been, but have been topping them up from other people’s packages.
AUSTIN:
Alright, look forgive me Senator, what I’m going to do is we seem to be having a problem with the audibility of your phone line, it is very muffled and it is what we call phasing in and out of something. I’m going to put you back on hold, my producer is going to call back on a different line and see if we can fix that line, is that okay with you?
FIFIELD:
Of course.
AUSTIN:
It’s not your fault it’s something, a problem with our gear so just forgive me. So that is Senator Mitch Fifield, my apologies to you if you are listening to try and understand. So we will get Senator Mitch Fifield back on the line. Let me just say you what Joe Hockey said about changes to pensions in his budget speech last week
Treasurer:… and the Age Pension will continue to increase twice a year this year and every year at the highest available indexation rate. The Age Pension is our Budget’s biggest item of expenditure, $44 billion a year, that is more than 10per cent of all government spending, the age pension is a critically important safety net for many Australians, that is why as our population ages we need to ensure the pension is sustainable and affordable. So from 1 January 2017 we will make changes that benefit pensioners with fewer assets beyond the family home. But we will also tighten the eligibility for those pensioners with higher levels of assets, importantly, anyone who currently has a pensioner concession card will continue to receive a concession card that provides the same benefits such as subsidised utilities and transport, bulk billing and cheaper PBS prescription medicines. These measures are all intended to provide security and certainty for older Australians in the years ahead.
AUSTIN:
That is Joe Hockey the Treasurer, just trying to get Senator Fifield back on the line, we will just check where we are in just a moment.
Okay let’s have a take two with Senator Fifield, are you with me Senator? Are you there Senator? Now you can hear me just bear with me I’m going to try a workaround. Have I got you now Senator?
FIFIELD:
You do.
AUSTIN:
Alright, we are having major problems with our number one phone line, my apologies for that Senator. Now, you were trying to explain, so the changes that affected David was as a result of the previous government’s changes and they are just starting to be felt now?
FIFIELD:
That’s right, but I should make clear that neither the previous government nor this government have reduced by a dollar the amount of money that we put towards home care packages. There is close to 2 billion dollars a year that the government puts towards home care packages and that is still the case. So there is no reduction in government funding.
What has happened, as I was explaining before, previously because there was no transparency, money went to providers and consumers did not know how much money they were getting, what the elements of their package were. And what had happened before, because we previously had this clunky system, where an individual who had an entitlement to a package, firstly, had to run around and find a provider who had a package and then, secondly, try and find a provider who had a package at the level to which they were entitled, whether it be Level 1, 2, 3 or 4.
And what sometimes happened, was a provider would say, look we don’t have a Level 4 package, which might be $47,000, but we do have a Level 2 package, so we will put you on that, someone else who has got a Level 4 package isn’t using their money so we will top you up with that. So for those sorts of anomalies, providers were given three years’ notice to address over time, because the average period that someone is on a home care package is about two years. So providers were given notice to address that situation. It would seem that providers haven’t done that in some cases.
Also, I am hearing stories where some providers are charging administration fees of up to 40 per cent which doesn’t strike me as right. So recognising that there are some issues here which we are discovering, I’m going to put in place a system to assess, on a case-by-case basis, circumstances where people have been told they are going to get less than they were getting before, which shouldn’t be the case. So I’m very keen to examine this particular case, and I want to put in place a process to examine it.
AUSTIN:
Okay, we might ask David if we can put you to interact with each other, you might be able to help his scenario.
FIFIELD:
That would be great.
AUSTIN:
Now we have got a good phone line now, so I’m going to keep you on hold, we just want to check traffic if you don’t mind, Senator, and come back to you and you can tell me, very clearly the changes that will roll out from February in the new year, if you would. So just stay on the line, will have another go.
We’ll put David and the Senator’s office in touch with each other to see if they can help over what David has to do. Now Senator there are a number of changes that will come as a result of the Budget, announced last week, for home care packages, the people who are carers. In simple terms, what are they please? From February next year?
FIFIELD:
Well from February after next year for the first time, home care packages, rather than being delivered to an aged care provider, will be attached to an individual consumer.
So the situation I mentioned before, where previously an individual had to run around and try to find a provider who had a package provided by the government, try and find a provider who had a package at the right level. From February 2017, the package will attach to the individual and they can choose the service provider of their choice.
AUSTIN:
So someone like David, you’ll have money attached directly to him, not to the person running the service and then he can choose who he wants to help him out with respite care?
FIFIELD:
Absolutely, and the family can negotiate with the provider what the various elements of that package are. With the consumer directed care changes we were talking about before, which have progressively been coming into place, that is a bit of a halfway house where people for the first time will have visibility about their packages, but they don’t yet have the right to take their package to another service provider. Their only option at the moment is to quit that service provider and then try and find another one who happens to have a package at the right level. It is very clunky. It is unsatisfactory for consumers.
So from February 2017, the power will be in the hands of the individual and it really, for home care in aged care, will be making it more analogous to the national disability insurance scheme where an individual is assessed, they get an entitlement commensurate to their need, they can take that to the provider of their choice. The individual is at the centre and in charge.
AUSTIN:
Now, as I understand it, the key difference here is the government used to be able to cross subsidise, taking leftover money and allocating it people who needed more, under the new program that money is gone and there are additional administrative fees, meaning the hours of respite care seniors are allocated each week is cut by 16 per cent. Is that the previous government or under your government?
FIFIELD:
That is the flow-through of decisions by the previous government in relation to the consumer directed care changes. Nothing to do with the February 2017 changes. But what some people are also finding with these consumer directed care changes, which are coming through at the moment, some people are finding that they were actually entitled to more money than they were getting, but some of their package was being given to another individual. Which is why, and I give credit to the previous government, they gave three years notice to providers. And given that people tend to be, on average, on packages for about two years, there was the opportunity for those arrangements to be regularised over time. But what is increasingly becoming clear is that not all providers have done what they should have, which is to regularise arrangements over time without impacting on individuals.
AUSTIN:
I think one of the issue seems to be, and I will read you another story from a listener in the moment, is that these people are elderly anyhow, and often, an elderly person who has issues medically is caring for another elderly person. And while you see it as sort of empowering them, you know, putting power in the hands, it actually is increasing the workload or the number of things they have to do. That might be why that three-year period has been focused on?
FIFIELD:
Well, providers should have taken the opportunity to work it through with new home care entrants as they came on board. But I guess the good news is with what we are putting in place from February 2017 is an individual can be as involved as they want to. But if they don’t want to be terribly involved, they can say to a provider, look here is my budget, assess me and give me the supports that you think I need. So if people want to be very closely involved in the management of their package under the February 2017 arrangements then they can be. But if they want to avail themselves of the experience and expertise of an aged care provider and put more of the load on them, then they can certainly do that as well.
AUSTIN:
Sabine on the Sunshine Coast says, I’m in a similar situation, I look after my 81-year-old mother, 24 hours a day, seven days a week after her stroke. I receive five hours a week respite/ domestic home care package Level 1. Because my mother receives not the full pension due to a small overseas pension, we now have to pay $18 a day every single day although we only received two days a month of help. Can you clarify that for me Senator Fifield?
FIFIELD:
Well I think that relates to a separate issue which is for home care packages there is a means test which has been in place. But the basic maximum amount which you can be required to pay is 17 1/2 per cent of the age pension. There’s also always been a means testing arrangement in place and that is not something that is connected to the consumer directed care changes or the changes that will be coming into place in February 2017.
AUSTIN:
So the aims of these changes, from February 2017, is you are trying to put more control into the hands of carers so they can know they have got a defined amount of money and they can make their own choices about what carer they go to?
FIFIELD:
That is exactly right.
AUSTIN:
And what does that do for them other than increase their work load?
FIFIELD:
Well it does not necessarily increase the work load for people. Some people want to be very involved in determining the various element of their home care package. Some people are happy to let a provider determine what are the elements that are right for them. The important thing is to give people choice. If you want to be very involved you have that opportunity. If you do not want to be heavily involved, you do not have to be. But it makes it easier for consumers who might not be enjoying the experience with a particular provider that they can say, thanks very much for what you have done for me, but I want to take my package and go to another service provider. At the moment that is very difficult for a person in receipt of a home care package to do, because the home care package attaches to and is owned, if you like, by the age care provider. This puts more control and more power in the hands of the individual. I think it will make home care providers more responsive and it will make home care providers really, over time, sharpen their pencils and their offering to try and attract consumers.
AUSTIN:
Before I let you go are there any changes to the actual pension that people need to know about. As the Assistant Minister for Social Services I am hoping you can clarify this. I think it takes up 10% of every dollar in the budget, if I heard Joe Hockey correctly. Are there any changes thought to the pension that people need to know about?
FIFIELD:
Well there will be changes to the pension from 2017, but on the whole they are positive. That more than 90%, or over three and a half million pensioners, who receive pension linked payments will either be better off or have no changes to their arrangements.
I’ll just give you an example, that couples who own their own home with additional assets of less than $451,000 dollars will get a higher pension. Couples who do not own their own home with asset holding of up to $699,000 will be better off. And for singles the maximum threshold point below which pensioners will be better off will be $289,500 for home owners and $537,000 for non-home owners.
There are some other changes that do effect people who have significant assets. That there will be fewer people who have significant assets who will be on the part pension.
But on the whole there will be about 170,000 pensioners with modest assets who will see more money in their pockets of about $30 per fortnight.
AUSTIN:
I want to put this to you. A listener has said I work for an age care provider and have been specifically working in this area; there are a couple of issue with what is happening with these changes. There are people who have been over serviced as the Minister was saying and now they are not able to have that over servicing but previously the clients were also allowed to get top up services from the government from other funding types and they are no longer able to do this from July 1. Do you want to respond to that?
FIFIELD:
It is difficult not knowing the particular circumstances of the individual.
AUSTIN:
Well generally clients are not allowed to get top up services from July 1 of this year.
FIFIELD:
Well we are trying to have a clearer separation between the home care packages and what is known as the home and community care program.
Our objective, and this is something that we announced on budget night as well, is that in July 2018 we ultimately want to fold the HACC program, which is also known as the Commonwealth Home Support Program, and Home Care together. Because you have got clunkiness within both the HACC program and the Home Care Program. And you have also got clunkiness between those two components.
AUSTIN:
Look Senator, if ever you come to Brisbane I would dearly like to get you in the studio at a later time in the morning and we can actually do a talk back so that listens can raise specific issue with you I think. Would you be prepared to do that?
FIFIELD:
Look that would be fabulous Steve. Very happy to do that.
AUSTIN:
I appreciate your time and your patience with me this morning. Thanks very much.
FIFIELD:
Not at all, thanks Steve.
AUSTIN:
That’s the Senator, Mitch Fifield who is Assistant Minister for Social Service; he is assisting the Minister Scott Morrison. My apologies for the real problems with the phone in the first part of that I hope I didn’t make it more confusing but either way there are changes that are kicking in on July 1 of this year that were announced three years ago. That if you are a carer from someone else there is a great deal of stress on you but you do need to find out about them because they may affect you personally. The changes announced in the budget last week come into effect from February 2017 so you have got two years yet but from February 2017 were by there is a funding package attacked to you and you can choose your home care provider, so they are trying to put power in your hands. And there will also be those changes made to the pension in Feb 2017 as well, that if you are below the $451,000 threshold you will still be able to receive the pension but once you are higher than that they will start to look at the assets that you have got.